[Average Gamer]

Sorry if I seem annoying, but could you also translate what the Red Maiden says about the Trident and Vaati/Gufuu not being the King of Darkness as well?

[MikePetersSucks]

I find it lulz that apparently the ancient demon that was reborn was the Trident itself, and not the Ganon persona.

[Average Gamer]

MikePetersSucks, on Mar 3 2009, 01:08 AM, said:

I find it lulz that apparently the ancient demon that was reborn was the Trident itself, and not the Ganon persona.

Technically, revived is probably being used along the lines of "reviving the Titanic" as Raien once mentioned at least 20 pages back.

[Impossible]

Yay, updated translation table:

http://sharebee.com/3e4bf3f6

I sent this one to davogones in xlsx and htm format, someone else will have to do an xls so it actually works. I'm scared by TP's amount of text, especially since the current script we have for it doesn't break it down into lines as it appears in the game and text dump, so I would have to cross check EVERY LINE with the text dump. Maybe I'll do FSA next. Anyone want to see that? >_>

This post has been edited by Impossible: 03 March 2009 - 06:33 AM

[Finbarr]

FSA would be good. I can't think of one I'd like to see more than that.

[Raien]

Average Gamer, on Mar 3 2009, 08:32 AM, said:

Technically, revived is probably being used along the lines of "reviving the Titanic" as Raien once mentioned at least 20 pages back.

There's a general use of the word "revived" in Zelda to mean "freed from a seal". Ganon was "revived" when the seal was broken in TWW and ALttP, as I recall. That's how the Titanic example fits in; it wasn't destroyed, but sealed underwater.

[MikePetersSucks]

Quote

Technically, revived is probably being used along the lines of "reviving the Titanic" as Raien once mentioned at least 20 pages back.

Yea, I know. I was talking about the English line that was botched.

[Impossible]

Gah, thanks to something Average Gamer asked me about, I've released a huge error in my understanding of the use of the word "makai" in the Zelda series, and some of the cases I mistakenly believed it to appear in... And I also went back and checked some OoT translations. I noticed that while "makai" does refer to the Sacred Realm after Ganon touches the Triforce, it is NOT used to refer to the place where Ganon was sealed. Not only that, but the Japanese version appears to contain none of the US version references to Ganon actually being sealed in the Dark World/Sacred Realm/his makai. I may be misunderstanding this because I'm not sure what Japanese terms are used where, but doesn't this bring into question how Ganon was actually sealed in OoT? I can't find any evidence of the seal on the Sacred Realm, my feeling being that this is not so good for some people's theories. I never noticed before because I figured it was still mentioned elsewhere, but putting together a couple of translations, I can't find anything to say this.

Also, what's the term for the Dark World in ALttP and FSA?

[Sign of Justice]

Impossible, on Mar 3 2009, 11:07 PM, said:

Gah, thanks to something Average Gamer asked me about, I've released a huge error in my understanding of the use of the word "makai" in the Zelda series, and some of the cases I mistakenly believed it to appear in... And I also went back and checked some OoT translations. I noticed that while "makai" does refer to the Sacred Realm after Ganon touches the Triforce, it is NOT used to refer to the place where Ganon was sealed. Not only that, but the Japanese version appears to contain none of the US version references to Ganon actually being sealed in the Dark World/Sacred Realm/his makai. I may be misunderstanding this because I'm not sure what Japanese terms are used where, but doesn't this bring into question how Ganon was actually sealed in OoT? I can't find any evidence of the seal on the Sacred Realm, my feeling being that this is not so good for some people's theories. I never noticed before because I figured it was still mentioned elsewhere, but putting together a couple of translations, I can't find anything to say this.

Also, what's the term for the Dark World in ALttP and FSA?

Zelda says that they are sealing him in the Evil Realm in NoA OoT. What does the Japanese version say?

I remember I read someone suggesting he got sealed in the Twilight Realm. It seems farfetched, though.

The Dark World is called the Makai, I think.

What do the parenthesis in

Quote

闇の王…　太古から　よみがえった　魔の邪器(じゃき)、トライデントを手にした男!!
King of Darkness... The man who obtained the trident, the evil tool of demons that was revived from ancient times!!
King of Darkness… The man who took the Trident, the demon's evil device (ja-ki) revived from ancient times!!
King of Darkness, ancient demon reborn. The wielder of the trident!!

mean?

[MikePetersSucks]

pretty much what it got translated as, "Evil device/tool."

[Impossible]

Quote

Zelda says that they are sealing him in the Evil Realm in NoA OoT. What does the Japanese version say?

I think jacensolo06 used "world of the dead" at one point. You can check my translation list for all these scenes. And TWW says he was revived, right?

[Average Gamer]

Sign of Justice, on Mar 3 2009, 10:40 PM, said:

What do the parenthesis in

Quote

闇の王…　太古から　よみがえった　魔の邪器(じゃき)、トライデントを手にした男!!
King of Darkness... The man who obtained the trident, the evil tool of demons that was revived from ancient times!!
King of Darkness… The man who took the Trident, the demon's evil device (ja-ki) revived from ancient times!!
King of Darkness, ancient demon reborn. The wielder of the trident!!

mean?

I already asked Jacen to translate that and the Trident inscription, which he did on the last page. I already requested the Red Maiden statement as well.

Impossible said:

I think jacensolo06 used "world of the dead" at one point.

Here's Jacen's translation of Rauru in the ending:

Rauru said:

Ancient gods who created Hyrule! Open the sealed door now and entomb the evil incarnation of darkness beyond the realm of the dead!!

Zelda, however, says that Ganondorf has been sealed in the "world of darkness". I'm not familiar with Japanese culture though, so the phrase might be used when referring to a place "beyond the realm of the dead,".

Zelda said:

Thank you, Link… Thanks to your power, Ganondorf has been sealed in the world of darkness. Now this world will once again begin a time of peace.

This post has been edited by Average Gamer: 04 March 2009 - 01:16 AM

[Impossible]

Yeah, she says "world of darkness", but not "makai", or any other term that refers to the actual Sacred Realm/Dark World. In an earlier scene (translated by Jumbie), the word used for the transformed SR was makai.

[Average Gamer]

Impossible, on Mar 3 2009, 11:20 PM, said:

Yeah, she says "world of darkness", but not "makai", or any other term that refers to the actual Sacred Realm/Dark World. In an earlier scene (translated by Jumbie), the word used for the transformed SR was makai.

I have that quote.

Sheik/Zelda said:

The place where the sacred triangle is, the Sacred Realm, is a mirror that reflects one's heart.

If the heart of one who enters it is evil, it turns into a Makai [Demon World]; if the heart is pure, it turns into a paradise.

From what I've seen, "world of darkness" seems to be a pretty common, general term.

[jacensolo06]

Impossible, on Mar 3 2009, 10:07 PM, said:

Gah, thanks to something Average Gamer asked me about, I've released a huge error in my understanding of the use of the word "makai" in the Zelda series, and some of the cases I mistakenly believed it to appear in... And I also went back and checked some OoT translations. I noticed that while "makai" does refer to the Sacred Realm after Ganon touches the Triforce, it is NOT used to refer to the place where Ganon was sealed. Not only that, but the Japanese version appears to contain none of the US version references to Ganon actually being sealed in the Dark World/Sacred Realm/his makai. I may be misunderstanding this because I'm not sure what Japanese terms are used where, but doesn't this bring into question how Ganon was actually sealed in OoT? I can't find any evidence of the seal on the Sacred Realm, my feeling being that this is not so good for some people's theories. I never noticed before because I figured it was still mentioned elsewhere, but putting together a couple of translations, I can't find anything to say this.

Also, what's the term for the Dark World in ALttP and FSA?

Here's a list of all of the quotes I could find in the text dump that refer to Ganondorf being sealed in the Sacred Realm in the NoA OoT.

Quote

アタシたち　賢者は 六人そろえば　魔王ガノンドロフを 封印することが　できるの。
If us six Sages are together, we can seal the Maou Ganondorf.
If all six Sages come together, we can imprison Ganondorf, the King of Evil, in the Sacred Realm.

賢者の封印は すべての　悪しき力を その彼方に　閉じこめる…
The Sages' Seal will close all of the evil power up in the beyond...
The Sages' Seals will contain all the evil power in the void of the Realm...

今こそ　封印の扉　開きて 邪悪なる　闇の化身を 冥府の彼方へ　葬りたまえ!!
Open the sealed door now and entomb the evil incarnation of darkness beyond the realm of the dead!!
Now, open the sealed door and send the Evil Incarnation of Darkness into the void of the Evil Realm!!

六賢者により開かれし封印の扉よ… 闇の化身と共に　永遠に閉じよ!
Sealed door that was opened by the six Sages... Close forever along with the incarnation of darkness!
Oh sealed door opened by the Sages... Close forever with the Evil Incarnation of Darkness within!!

あなたの力で　ガノンドロフは 闇の世界に　封印されました。
Thanks to your power, Ganondorf has been sealed in the world of darkness.
Thanks to you, Ganondorf has been sealed inside the Evil Realm!

六賢者たちが開いた　封印に ガノンドロフを　引き込み、私が　こちらの世界から閉じる… それで　魔王ガノンドロフは この世から　消えるでしょう。
I will lure Ganondorf into the seal which the Six Sages opened, and close it from this world... Thus, the Maou Ganondorf will hopefully vanish from this world.
The six Sages will open the sealed door and lure Ganondorf back into the Sacred Realm. I will then seal the door to the Sacred Realm from this world.

The term Zelda uses when she says he was sealed in the "world of darkness" is "闇の世界 (yami no sekai)" which is the same term used in ALttP for the Dark World.

Edit: Forgot to mention, this is the only place in all of OoT that "Yami no Sekai" is used.

This post has been edited by jacensolo06: 04 March 2009 - 01:30 AM

[Impossible]

Wait, ALttP doesn't use makai? Now I'm confused. (What about FSA?) So there's exactly one reference to "yami no sekai", and exactly one to the "makai", and the rest omit all the references to sealing in a specific place altogether? I doubt they would really be that inconsistent, so I would think that makai is the one that refers to the Sacred Realm. World of darkness is kind of generic.

Why the hell did NoA invent all the other uses of SR? To connect to ALttP? I guess the developers were leaving their options open to change things later - which they did, with TWW. It makes sense, given that OoT had inconsistencies with ALttP that they may have wanted out of their way...

Edit: Oh boy.

Quote

六賢者により開かれし封印の扉よ… 闇の化身と共に　永遠に閉じよ!
Sealed door that was opened by the six Sages... Close forever along with the incarnation of darkness!
Oh sealed door opened by the Sages... Close forever with the Evil Incarnation of Darkness within!!

This isn't in the game. Shall we go looking for more potentially important removed OoT text? I say no. >_> That's really only important for TP and FSA.

Also, just what is "the seal which the Six Sages opened"? It would seem to be "the beyond" Rauru refers to, not really the SR...

This post has been edited by Impossible: 04 March 2009 - 02:03 AM

[jacensolo06]

"Makai" is never used in ALttp, "Dark World" is always "yami no sekai". FSA mostly uses "yami no sekai", but the knights refer to it as the "makai". OoT says the Sacred Realm was turned into a "makai" when Ganon became the "maou" and Zelda refers to where Ganon was sealed as the "yami no sekai".

Japanese OoT gives the location of the sealing as "yami no sekai" once, "beyond the meifu (realm of the dead)" once, just a general "beyond" once, and every other time just says Ganon was/will be sealed.

[Average Gamer]

Seeing as how the Dark World was a corrupted Sacred Realm and that Sheik said a corrupted Sacred Realm would be a Makai, it's clear that the Dark World was a Makai.

[MikePetersSucks]

Except LTTP consistently calls it a Yami no Sekai, and Sheik's reference is an allegorial legend that also says the Sacred Realm can be a paradise.

[Average Gamer]

MikePetersSucks, on Mar 4 2009, 12:13 AM, said:

Except LTTP consistently calls it a Yami no Sekai, and Sheik's reference is an allegorial legend that also says the Sacred Realm can be a paradise.

Paradise is a rather vague term though, while Makai seems to be pretty distinct.

This post has been edited by Average Gamer: 04 March 2009 - 02:20 AM

[MikePetersSucks]

I just looked over the kanji; "Paradise" can be read as "Tengoku", which is really specific and comparable to "World of Celestial Beings", and I doubt the Sacred Realm is inhabited by angels and sweet little gods when a good person has the Triforce. I'm thinking it's entirely allegorical in both directions to drive home the point that the Sacred Realm is whatever the Triforce Holder wants it to be.

[FDL]

These translations have been interesting, thanks a lot jacen. And thanks for trying to compile them, Impossible. But I must say, I have to give props to Nintendo's translators. It seems like they really did a great job translating OoT for the most part.

[Average Gamer]

MikePetersSucks, on Mar 4 2009, 09:19 PM, said:

I just looked over the kanji; "Paradise" can be read as "Tengoku", which is really specific and comparable to "World of Celestial Beings", and I doubt the Sacred Realm is inhabited by angels and sweet little gods when a good person has the Triforce. I'm thinking it's entirely allegorical in both directions to drive home the point that the Sacred Realm is whatever the Triforce Holder wants it to be.

Alright, thanks for that. I guess it is fitting for Sheik, though Sheik was pretty factual/direct when talking about the Triforce split.

Knowing Ganondorf, it's plausible that he made the Sacred Realm an actual Makai anyway, but whatever.

[Impossible]

Duke Serkol has raised the point before that Nintendo may have initially intended for OoT to be the IW, but changed this later in development, with points like Ganondorf only getting one part of the Triforce making them think it may not work. So while they weren't specific in either direction as to whether it's the IW or not, maybe they deliberately made it vague to cover their asses - which turned out to be a good idea once TWW came along. I could be wrong, though, I just find it interesting.

Anyway, was that line from the guard in OoT translated? Just want to make sure I didn't miss it, or jacen didn't miss it. >_<

[Average Gamer]

Impossible, on Mar 5 2009, 12:52 AM, said:

Duke Serkol has raised the point before that Nintendo may have initially intended for OoT to be the IW, but changed this later in development, with points like Ganondorf only getting one part of the Triforce making them think it may not work. So while they weren't specific in either direction as to whether it's the IW or not, maybe they deliberately made it vague to cover their asses - which turned out to be a good idea once TWW came along. I could be wrong, though, I just find it interesting.

Personally, I agree with that. While at first Nintendo may have intended OoT to be the Imprisoning War, TWW basically makes that impossible, and the FSA plans show that Nintendo's apparently left OoT's role in the IW behind.

Impossible said:

Anyway, was that line from the guard in OoT translated? Just want to make sure I didn't miss it, or jacen didn't miss it. >_<

Don't worry, jacensolo06 hasn't translated that line yet.

[Impossible]

By the way, does anyone know why Jumbie edited his translation of Ganondorf's execution scene months after making it? I've been wondering about this since I noticed it now says "divine prank", and differs from the version on my computer.

[Raien]

Impossible, on Mar 5 2009, 09:15 AM, said:

By the way, does anyone know why Jumbie edited his translation of Ganondorf's execution scene months after making it? I've been wondering about this since I noticed it now says "divine prank", and differs from the version on my computer.

I think I remember this. He said he had improved his translation-ing since he did that initial translation and wanted to correct it.

[Average Gamer]

Guys, Jumbie is a woman.

[Arturo]

Except he's not I know him personally, and I can assure you he's a guy.

[Duke Serkol]

Average Gamer, on Mar 5 2009, 10:55 PM, said:

Guys, Jumbie is a woman.

Eh, another poor innocent victim falls to teh Jumbie trap.

This post has been edited by Duke Serkol: 05 March 2009 - 07:45 PM