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Symbolism in Ganon's Transformation

Started by Guest_BlackHawkA100_* , Oct 18 2004 12:52 PM

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#31 Guest_BlackHawkA100_*

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Posted 21 October 2004 - 01:35 PM

Not so! We have a Wind God and Earth God in the Wind Waker as well as the two lesser wind gods Zephos and Cyclos. And have you forgotten the Goddess of the Sands? She could be considered an "Evil" Goddess. And then theres certian immortal beings that could be considered lesser gods too like the Fairy Queen and the Great Deku Tree. There's probably lots of other gods not mentioned yet. Din, Nayru, and Farore are just the Creator Dieties. They're probably the at the top of the chain of commands but the way OoT's creation story puts it, it looks like the Goddesses created the world, made Hylians their chosen race, and then just left everyone to fend for themselves

Oh yeah. And the Goddess of Time too. Can't forget her.


You've got me there.

Or he's...a greedy Gerudo so corrupted with madness he's invincible and nearly forgotten why he wanted the Triforce in the first place? I'll uh...go with my option...


Perhaps, but whoever said he was greedy? More power hungry if you ask me. Corrupted with madness? Again, maybe, but unlikely, he seems to be pretty in control as far as I can see throughout the games, perhaps overtaken by a lust for revenge, but not madness. As far as forgetting why he wanted the Triforce in the first place, I don't think so, it's more likely that his plans changed when he got trapped, he still wanted to rule Hyrule, but he was more bent on revenge and so he uses it differently.

#32 Husse

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Posted 21 October 2004 - 09:03 PM

Power Hungry and greedy are rather synonymous. That's what I meant...

I think he is a bit mad...He's a mad genius is all. Remember the end to the Wind Waker? His prattling? His confidence/pride even in death in OoT? Slightly off from power...

#33 Guest_BlackHawkA100_*

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Posted 21 October 2004 - 11:52 PM

Well, nothing wrong with a bit of confidence or pride. heh, actually, I'm surprised he's so resilient, a lesser piggy demon would back down after being smacked down so much. And ya gotta love that thin line between genius and insanity. Anyway, after all he's been through we should let him be a bit crazy I suppose, I'd be a bit loony if I went through all he has.

#34 SOAP

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Posted 22 October 2004 - 12:03 AM

Actuall, now that I think of it, did Ganon really deserve to be impaled in the head with MS at the end of TWW? Yeah sure, he probably killed [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] of people once he escaped Dark World. But that was over a hundred years ago! Al he had done recently was kidnap a bunch of little girls and destroyed an island that was ugly anyways. I'd understand imprisoning him back in Dark World but slashing him in the head like that... That's a bit overkill if you ask me. :s:

#35 Guest_BlackHawkA100_*

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Posted 22 October 2004 - 12:17 AM

Maybe he didn't, but don't tell Link that, I hear he has a brand spankin' new sword and he's looking to impale anybody who doesn't agree with him.

#36 Husse

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Posted 22 October 2004 - 07:23 AM

Uh...he was planning to kill off dear Zelda, and rule Hyrule and submerge all the islands (or drain them) and he would kill Link otherwise...I think it's justified...

#37 Guest_BlackHawkA100_*

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Posted 22 October 2004 - 09:39 AM

I'm pretty sure this was just a joke. If he was planning on submerging the islands he's probably a bit more justified in being skewered, but if he was planning on draining the sea what's so wrong with that? If Link had never gotten involved there would never have been a problem, he never seemed to be intending to kill Zelda, only take the triforce from her. As soon as he found the right girl he would most likely have set loose the others. But if you want to go all serious on this matter, there would really be no point to the game if any of this went the way I just stated. How'd we get talking about WW in this thread anyway? Ganon never transforms in the WW.

#38 Husse

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Posted 23 October 2004 - 04:22 PM

Yes, he does...he turns into FAT GANON! Anyone notice how wide he is there?

#39 Kairu Hakubi

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Posted 23 October 2004 - 05:41 PM

We've discussed this before. he's just barrel-chested like the pirates.

#40 Husse

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Posted 23 October 2004 - 05:56 PM

Joking, silly....I always figured he was just MASSIVE to begin with.

#41 JRPomazon

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Posted 05 November 2004 - 05:34 PM

Oh yeah. And the Goddess of Time too. Can't forget her.


Goddess of Time? I am not familar with this dieity. I think you'll have to explain who she is.

You might want to make a flow chart on the chain of command.
(Ex. Something
|
Something Else of lesser power
|
Lesser being than the Something of Lesser power)

#42 Showsni

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Posted 07 November 2004 - 02:43 PM

The Goddess of Time is mostly mentioned in Majora's Mask - it is she who lets Link travel through time when he plays the Ocarina of Time.

As for Ganon, I know it's not canon, but has anyone read the Valiant comics? In the third issue, I think, Link obtains the Triforce of Power without the Triforce of Wisdom. He goes slightly power mad and insane, ie. attacking Zelda when she refuses to give him the Triforce of Wisdom, and turns into a pig monster, like Ganon. Ganon says: "This is the price of power! It corrupted and twisted you as it did me! It is horrible, is it not?"

And if Ganon's a pig, he must be a boar, unless he's a sow - and I don't think he'd randomly change gender like that...

#43 Husse

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Posted 08 November 2004 - 08:24 AM

DEFINITELY not canon. But I do think that whole, "The Ring" issue works here. Just maybe on Zelda, not the hero.

#44 Guest_Darkseid_*

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Posted 23 November 2004 - 09:09 AM

I got to agree with BlackHawkA100, on the fact that Ganon resembles more of boar than a pig. In A link to the Past, Ganon looks like a boar, and the official artwork helps. In the Ocarina of Time, even though he has horns this time around, he still resembles a boar to me, not to mention we never have seen the official artwork of Ganon to actually confirm what he is persay. In the Oracle Series he appears as a boar, and once again the official artwork helps. In Four Swords Adventures he appears as a boar once again. In the Legend of Zelda is the only one in which he looks just like a simple pig, but one must also consider that details in games at that time were not that easy to define every little detail, and we never really seen any offical artwork of Ganon, from the original.

I would also think to equate Ganondorf as a person who was out to sought revenge for his people. For as we all know the Goddesses had christened the Hylians as thier chosen people. Maybe Ganondorf thought that this was a bit racist from his creators, and decided to use thier essence, thier symbol as a way of putting the Gerudos above the Hylians. We did notice that all of the races in the Ocarina of Time were treated unfairly, all that is except for the Gerudos. Of course that may have been his original goal, not saying it was, but just theorizing here, but ultimately he would be consumed for his lust for power. That's the way I see it.

#45 Kairu Hakubi

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Posted 23 November 2004 - 09:39 AM

the gerudos DO lack the pointy ears to hear the gods... ^_^
the original LoZ artwork made ganon out to be more like a mysterious demon.. all we ever see is a big evil cloud and the back of a blue-skinned humanoid knee...
remember though that ganon frequently has horns in addition to tusks, i always saw him as more of an amalgamation of 'demon' characteristics, including pig, goat, and goblin-esque.

#46 Guest_Darkseid_*

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Posted 23 November 2004 - 11:06 AM

I completely forgot about those pictures in the instruction manual of the Legend of Zelda. However, I do gotta point out that Ganon has never had horns, besides the Ocarina of Time game. In the other games Ganon may have a helment that has horns on it, but he himself has never had horns on his body, with the exception of the Ocarina of Time.

Also I should have clarified a bit on the Gerudos being the only ones not to suffer in the Ocarina of Time. I meant though when Ganondorf had the Triforce of Power, all races suffered, but his own race. I know no one mentioned anything about it, but I figured I'd clear that up before anyone began asking questions as to what I had meant.

#47 Kairu Hakubi

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Posted 23 November 2004 - 07:09 PM

and wind waker. the 'ganon' skulls as well as the 'miniblins' (of the same species as moblins, and thus, of ganon, IMO) have lyre-like horns.

#48 Lord Jabu-Jabu

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Posted 23 November 2004 - 10:02 PM

Goddess of Time? I am not familar with this dieity. I think you'll have to explain who she is.


It's most like she in actually just Nayru. We know that Farore is called the 'Goddess of Courage' as well as 'Goddess of Wind' (on the Tingle Tuner anway). So it's not unreasonable that the Goddesses can go by more than one title. Because of this, Din may even be the 'Earth God' from TWW.

#49 Guest_Darkseid_*

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Posted 25 November 2004 - 03:02 AM

and wind waker. the 'ganon' skulls as well as the 'miniblins' (of the same species as moblins, and thus, of ganon, IMO) have lyre-like horns.


Well the Miniblins did have horns although they were bit more crooked and more elongated that Ganon's horns from the Ocarina of Time. Also the Miniblins, Bokoblins, and Moblins may be closely related, but Miniblins have two horns (as I already stated), Bokoblins only have one horn in the center of thier forehead (nothing Ganon has ever had), and Moblins have no horns whatsoever. Plus Moblins have only been changed into more Pig-like creatures during the most recent games, originally they were more like bulldog-creatures, and the Ocarina of Time artwork of the Moblin is so far the best in the series in my opinion. As for the 'Ganon' skulls, I am a bit puzzled on what you mean by that, but maybe you can explain it to me, and I'll judge for myself.

#50 Guest_Zangus_*

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Posted 25 November 2004 - 07:42 PM

Your right about Moblins, as compared to LA to TWW the Moblins in LA looks [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] like bulldogs and TWW looks [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] like pigs. But I found OoT Moblins to be almost man like myself.

#51 Guest_Darkseid_*

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Posted 25 November 2004 - 08:43 PM

Your right about Moblins, as compared to LA to TWW the Moblins in LA looks [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] like bulldogs and TWW looks [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] like pigs. But I found OoT Moblins to be almost man like myself.


Check out the official artwork of the Moblins in the Ocarina of Time they have bulldog-like faces. Also the Chief Moblin looks pretty cool too, you should check him out as well.

#52 Guest_Zangus_*

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Posted 25 November 2004 - 09:34 PM

I know they have bulldog-like faces, (ive seen people IRL with faces like that too heh) but im just saying it looks more manlike more so than any of the other Moblins.

#53 Kairu Hakubi

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Posted 26 November 2004 - 02:07 PM

Bokoblins only have one horn in the center of thier forehead

uhh, what? I didn't see that... at all.
and that whole moblin thing pishes me off -way- more than it ought to.. they're ALL bulldog/pigs.. with attributes of both.. plus goblin-ness.. grr!

#54 Guest_Darkseid_*

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Posted 26 November 2004 - 06:54 PM

uhh, what? I didn't see that... at all.  
and that whole moblin thing pishes me off -way- more than it ought to.. they're ALL bulldog/pigs.. with attributes of both.. plus goblin-ness.. grr!


Well the Bokoblins have a snout, pointed ears which stick out from side to side, they have only one horn atop thier forehead, the wear a small helment, they wear ripped shaggy looking clothes, they have three fingers, they have tails that go into an arrow type shape similar to how people depict demons, and they come in three different color varieties. I am not how much sure I can explain this, unless I am going to have to send a link and show a picture of them.

As for the Moblins, if talking about the subject upsets you so much I won't bring it up again.

#55 Kairu Hakubi

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Posted 27 November 2004 - 08:51 PM

bleah! windwaker monsters are just weird, anyway.. but i could swear i never saw any horn on the bokoblins.. especially only one.. and a devil-tail? that's just awesome, and re-affirms my belief that theyre all just general demonic forms with the pig/goat/dog aspects..

#56 Guest_Terranix_*

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 06:52 AM

TWW Ganon was fat. The bulge is at his stomach and his shoulders are sloping rather than broad.

And he does transform--all those puppet monsters? You clearly see his sillouette warping and growing etc.

#57 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 01:21 PM

Yea, and we see the reak Ganondorf at the top pulling the strings. The Ganondorf we see at the bottom (which is pupilless) is actually the puppet

#58 Guest_Darkseid_*

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Posted 29 November 2004 - 05:01 AM

bleah! windwaker monsters are just weird, anyway.. but i could swear i never saw any horn on the bokoblins.. especially only one.. and a devil-tail? that's just awesome, and re-affirms my belief that theyre all just general demonic forms with the pig/goat/dog aspects..


Take a look at the game or the artwork of the Bokoblin and you will see that it's horn is clearly obvious.
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