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When Zelda Legends comes back up, I want to create a new section that catalogues all the different comments from Aonuma and Miyamoto in one easy-to-access place. Because they've made a ton of them over the course of the series history, but unless you're intimately familiar with them all and a long-time fan, they can be a pain in the ass to keep track of. So I turn to you guys for some help. Can you guys help me find interviews that contain comments from Aonuma, and, if you're willing to go a step further, quote the relevant pieces of the interviews?
Stuff like Aonuma's comments on tMC being early in the timeline, PH coming after tWW, the infamous split-timeline interviews and statements, etc., etc.
Help cataloguing creator comments on timeline.
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#2
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Posted 12 March 2007 - 10:42 PM
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BB: As far as the storyline, there was kind of a certain progression of the way Link progressed through the original Legend Of Zelda, to The Link To The Past, To Ocarina Of Time, and the rest of the titles, until Wind Waker. Miyamoto stated that the Link in the Wind Waker was really another Link. Can you explain that? It’s a little confusing for some people that this is a different Link. Did Wind Waker start a whole new chapter, or a whole new story?
EA: I think the easiest way to explain this is that Link is always the main character in Zelda titles. With new games, naturally people are going to think how does this Link relate to the Link from the last game? The thing is, when making a new Zelda game, we don’t necessarily start with the storyline first, we start with the game, and we think, “What’s Link going to be like in this game? What kind of a character is he going to be, and what kind of a personality is he going to have?” In that sense, for us, we didn’t necessarily feel there was a need to have an infinitive connection between everything, because it was this idea that Link is the hero no matter what. He’s here, and he’s part of the story. Obviously for people that are fans, it’s something that they pay a lot of attention to. If you start thinking about that, then you’ll have questions, say, if this Link is related to that Link in this way, what does that say about the four Links in Four Swords? How does that all fit in?
To me storyline is important, and as producer, I am going to be going through, and trying to bring all of these stories together, and kind of make them a little bit more clear. Unfortunately, we just haven’t done that yet.
BB: That’s something that, you (Bill Trinen – Localization Team) and I have talked about with the release of the Zelda compilation disc, cleaning up some of the spellings like Ganon, and making sure everything is cohesive. Maybe that’s an American thing – us wanting to know how it all works together. I guess that leads me to my next questions. How do the Links in The Four Swords Adventure relate to the overall story line? Or is it just a subchapter or something like that?
EA: The GBA Four Swords Zelda is what we’re thinking as the oldest tale in the Zelda timeline. With this one on the GameCube being a sequel to that, and taking place sometime after that.
EA: I think the easiest way to explain this is that Link is always the main character in Zelda titles. With new games, naturally people are going to think how does this Link relate to the Link from the last game? The thing is, when making a new Zelda game, we don’t necessarily start with the storyline first, we start with the game, and we think, “What’s Link going to be like in this game? What kind of a character is he going to be, and what kind of a personality is he going to have?” In that sense, for us, we didn’t necessarily feel there was a need to have an infinitive connection between everything, because it was this idea that Link is the hero no matter what. He’s here, and he’s part of the story. Obviously for people that are fans, it’s something that they pay a lot of attention to. If you start thinking about that, then you’ll have questions, say, if this Link is related to that Link in this way, what does that say about the four Links in Four Swords? How does that all fit in?
To me storyline is important, and as producer, I am going to be going through, and trying to bring all of these stories together, and kind of make them a little bit more clear. Unfortunately, we just haven’t done that yet.
BB: That’s something that, you (Bill Trinen – Localization Team) and I have talked about with the release of the Zelda compilation disc, cleaning up some of the spellings like Ganon, and making sure everything is cohesive. Maybe that’s an American thing – us wanting to know how it all works together. I guess that leads me to my next questions. How do the Links in The Four Swords Adventure relate to the overall story line? Or is it just a subchapter or something like that?
EA: The GBA Four Swords Zelda is what we’re thinking as the oldest tale in the Zelda timeline. With this one on the GameCube being a sequel to that, and taking place sometime after that.
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Superplay: How do the Zelda games timelines link together? Is there any connection between the different games, or do you take tell us a new Zelda story each time?
Shigeru Miyamoto: For every Zelda game we tell a new story, but we actually have an enormous document that explains how the game relates to the others, and bind them together. But to be honest, they are not that important to us. We care more about developing the game system... give the player new challenges for every chapter that is born.
Shigeru Miyamoto: For every Zelda game we tell a new story, but we actually have an enormous document that explains how the game relates to the others, and bind them together. But to be honest, they are not that important to us. We care more about developing the game system... give the player new challenges for every chapter that is born.
From http://www.miyamotos...ws/230403.shtml
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Kushida: In my understanding, “Ocarina of Time” depicts the first adventure that Link has. Is that true?
Miyamoto: That is true. This is about the time that Child Link makes his debut. He is set to be about 7~8 years old.
Miyamoto: That is true. This is about the time that Child Link makes his debut. He is set to be about 7~8 years old.
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Power: Let's get back to Zelda. You said the game's "System" is more important than its "Story" when you develope a game. Is that true for Zelda this time?
Miyamoto: Yes, but since I have an excellent staff that is stron in every area, I think you'll find that the story-telling is a real strength in this game.
Power: But the "System" is still the most important part of the game?
Miyamoto: Yes. I don't think that a story alone can make a game exciting. I'm afraid that people think that I ignore story lines or that I don't feel that the story has any value. My first priority is whether the game play is interesting. What I mean by that is that a player is actively involved in the game. The story is just one of the ways to get players interested, like the enemies or puzzles. If you just want a good story, you should pick up a novel or see a movie. The difference is in the participation. In a game, you might meet a character, but you don't find out his story until later, after you do something that reveals the truth about him. It's all up to the player. You only get that sort of experience with the interactive entertainment. Of course, the scenario, characters and graphics are all important, but its this active attitude that is the most important element.
Miyamoto: Yes, but since I have an excellent staff that is stron in every area, I think you'll find that the story-telling is a real strength in this game.
Power: But the "System" is still the most important part of the game?
Miyamoto: Yes. I don't think that a story alone can make a game exciting. I'm afraid that people think that I ignore story lines or that I don't feel that the story has any value. My first priority is whether the game play is interesting. What I mean by that is that a player is actively involved in the game. The story is just one of the ways to get players interested, like the enemies or puzzles. If you just want a good story, you should pick up a novel or see a movie. The difference is in the participation. In a game, you might meet a character, but you don't find out his story until later, after you do something that reveals the truth about him. It's all up to the player. You only get that sort of experience with the interactive entertainment. Of course, the scenario, characters and graphics are all important, but its this active attitude that is the most important element.
From http://www.miyamotos...iews/0898.shtml
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NP: Where do all the Zelda games fall into place when arranged chronologically by their stories?
Miyamoto: Ocarina of Time is the first story, then the original Legend of Zelda, then Zelda II: The Adventure of Link, and finally A Link to the Past. It's not very clear where Link's Awakening fits in--it could be anytime after Ocarina of Time.
Miyamoto: Ocarina of Time is the first story, then the original Legend of Zelda, then Zelda II: The Adventure of Link, and finally A Link to the Past. It's not very clear where Link's Awakening fits in--it could be anytime after Ocarina of Time.
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Q: I think I'm right in saying the new Zelda (Wind Waker) takes place before the other Zelda games, right?
Miyamoto: I'm not that deeply involved in the Zelda project, but if that is actually the case we have decided that the setting for the game will be near the beginning.
Miyamoto: I'm not that deeply involved in the Zelda project, but if that is actually the case we have decided that the setting for the game will be near the beginning.
From http://www.miyamotos...s/2405022.shtml
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NP: Where does the latest Zelda game (Wind Waker) fall into the series' mythology? Early in the series or after Majora's Mask?
Miyamoto: This is the very first Zelda story. If all we ever did was try to continue the story, we'd lose some of the interest. It's fun to jump back and forth.
Miyamoto: This is the very first Zelda story. If all we ever did was try to continue the story, we'd lose some of the interest. It's fun to jump back and forth.
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Could you please explain how the different Zelda games tie together and whether Link is the same in each game.
Miyamoto: In the long history of Hyrule, there are a number of Links which have made contributions. We'd need to write long papers indeed to cover all the background of this.
Miyamoto: In the long history of Hyrule, there are a number of Links which have made contributions. We'd need to write long papers indeed to cover all the background of this.
From http://www.miyamotos...ws/210203.shtml
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NoE: How does the Minish Cap fit into the Zelda chronology? Is it a prequel to the upcoming The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Adventures on GameCube?
Aonuma: Yes, this title takes place prior to The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Adventures, and tells the secret of the birth of the Four Sword.
Aonuma: Yes, this title takes place prior to The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Adventures, and tells the secret of the birth of the Four Sword.
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–When does Twilight Princess take place?
Aonuma: In the world of Ocarina of Time, a hundred and something years later.
–And the Wind Waker?
Aonuma: The Wind Waker is parallel. In Ocarina of Time, Link flew seven years in time, he beat Ganon and went back to being a kid, remember? Twilight Princess takes place in the world of Ocarina of Time, a hundred and something years after the peace returned to kid Link’s time. In the last scene of Ocarina of Time, kids Link and Zelda have a little talk, and as a consequence of that talk, their relationship with Ganon takes a whole new direction. In the middle of this game [Twilight Princess], there's a scene showing Ganon's execution. It was decided that Ganon be executed because he'd do something outrageous if they left him be. That scene takes place several years after Ocarina of Time. Ganon was sent to another world and now he wants to obtain the power...
Aonuma: In the world of Ocarina of Time, a hundred and something years later.
–And the Wind Waker?
Aonuma: The Wind Waker is parallel. In Ocarina of Time, Link flew seven years in time, he beat Ganon and went back to being a kid, remember? Twilight Princess takes place in the world of Ocarina of Time, a hundred and something years after the peace returned to kid Link’s time. In the last scene of Ocarina of Time, kids Link and Zelda have a little talk, and as a consequence of that talk, their relationship with Ganon takes a whole new direction. In the middle of this game [Twilight Princess], there's a scene showing Ganon's execution. It was decided that Ganon be executed because he'd do something outrageous if they left him be. That scene takes place several years after Ocarina of Time. Ganon was sent to another world and now he wants to obtain the power...
From http://www.thehylia....o...mp;ucat=19&
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Q: Where does The Wind Waker fit into the overall Zelda series timeline?
Aonuma: You can think of this game as taking place over a hundred years after Ocarina of Time. You can tell this from the opening story, and there are references to things from Ocarina located throughout the game as well.
Miyamoto: Well, wait, which point does the hundred years start from?
Aonuma: From the end.
Miyamoto: No, I mean, as a child or as a...
Aonuma: Oh, right, let me elaborate on that. Ocarina of Time basically has two endings of sorts; one has Link as a child and the other has him as an adult. This game, The Wind Waker, takes place a hundred years after the adult Link defeats Ganon at the end of Ocarina.
Miyamoto: This is pretty confusing for us, too. (laughs) So be careful.
Aonuma: You can think of this game as taking place over a hundred years after Ocarina of Time. You can tell this from the opening story, and there are references to things from Ocarina located throughout the game as well.
Miyamoto: Well, wait, which point does the hundred years start from?
Aonuma: From the end.
Miyamoto: No, I mean, as a child or as a...
Aonuma: Oh, right, let me elaborate on that. Ocarina of Time basically has two endings of sorts; one has Link as a child and the other has him as an adult. This game, The Wind Waker, takes place a hundred years after the adult Link defeats Ganon at the end of Ocarina.
Miyamoto: This is pretty confusing for us, too. (laughs) So be careful.
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Where does The Wind Waker fit into the overall timeline of the Legend of Zelda?
Mr. Aonuma: In terms of the storyline, we've decided that this takes place 100 years after the events in The Ocarina of Time. We think that as you play through the game, you'll notice that in the beginning the storyline explains some of the events in The Ocarina of Time. You'll also find hints of things from The Ocarina of Time that exist in The Wind Waker.
There's also a more complicated explanation. If you think back to the end of The Ocarina of Time, there were two endings to that game in different time periods. First Link defeated Ganon as an adult, and then he actually went back to being a child. You could say that The Wind Waker takes place 100 years after the ending in which Link was an adult.
Mr. Aonuma: In terms of the storyline, we've decided that this takes place 100 years after the events in The Ocarina of Time. We think that as you play through the game, you'll notice that in the beginning the storyline explains some of the events in The Ocarina of Time. You'll also find hints of things from The Ocarina of Time that exist in The Wind Waker.
There's also a more complicated explanation. If you think back to the end of The Ocarina of Time, there were two endings to that game in different time periods. First Link defeated Ganon as an adult, and then he actually went back to being a child. You could say that The Wind Waker takes place 100 years after the ending in which Link was an adult.
"Edited for clarity and length." From http://www.nintendo....m-Game-0000-823
#3
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Posted 14 March 2007 - 10:24 AM
http://www.angelfire...otcomments.html
Not exactly a creator comment, but this page of Nintendo.co.jp says that Link's Awakening DX follows Link's defeat of Ganon in A Link to the Past and shows a brief video clip of ALttP's final boss fight.
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The first thing we thought of on Ganon was why did you make him that kind of character?
When I first thought about Ganon, I had the image of a crooked and complex thief, who was basically an all around abominable human being. That's why I wanted to make Ganon to this image I had, but the Design Team and the Script Director Mr. Osawa said "that's not the case. This time, Ganon will actually have parts where he is rather good." In terms of "Fist of the North Star"* he'd probably be like Raoh. He's supposed to be a more good man**, with lot's of charisma and a big-shot attitude, and so we remade him.
*a comic book series, and later a TV show
**the connotation for "man" is a younger one
We made three forms of Ganon: Ganondorf in the beginning, Ganondorf seven years later with long hair, and Ganon at the end. Just to let you know, Ganondorf actually has a tentative model. We kept Christopher Lambert's image in our heads.... But the end result came out quite different we think.
In past, when you thought about Ganon in Zelda, he was a pig. This time, when were collaborating ideas, we thought "He wouldn't be a pig, would he?" There were even some who thought "I don't want him to be a pig." But I still thought that at least the end should have Ganon as a pig. The whole time I wanted to know what Mr. Miyamoto thought, but in the end, I realized that Mr. Miyamoto didn't have an opinion on the matter, so I decided to do it the way I wanted.
This time, the story really wasn't an original. We were dealing with the "The Imprisoning War of the Seven Sages" from the SNES edition Zelda. To give that game a little "secret" recognition, I thought that keeping the "pigness" in Ganon would be the correct course. So we made him a beast "with the feeling of a pig."
Well, in that sense, "a pig is a pig." When he transforms, and we see the rise of face, there is that not quite concealed feeling of a pig left.
You know there's that cold medicine "Kaigen"*? Well, just between the staff, you know the "Wind God"** character for "Kaigen," some people have even called Ganon that. (laughs) "I've got a cold!"***
(Character Designer Satoru Takizawa)
*Kaigen is a brand of cold medicine
**The wind god is Kaigen's mascot:
http://www3.osk.3web.../kami/tachi.gif
I think the staff like calling Ganon the mascot because they sort of look similar.
*** That quote is probably what the Wind God said in his commercials or something.
When I first thought about Ganon, I had the image of a crooked and complex thief, who was basically an all around abominable human being. That's why I wanted to make Ganon to this image I had, but the Design Team and the Script Director Mr. Osawa said "that's not the case. This time, Ganon will actually have parts where he is rather good." In terms of "Fist of the North Star"* he'd probably be like Raoh. He's supposed to be a more good man**, with lot's of charisma and a big-shot attitude, and so we remade him.
*a comic book series, and later a TV show
**the connotation for "man" is a younger one
We made three forms of Ganon: Ganondorf in the beginning, Ganondorf seven years later with long hair, and Ganon at the end. Just to let you know, Ganondorf actually has a tentative model. We kept Christopher Lambert's image in our heads.... But the end result came out quite different we think.
In past, when you thought about Ganon in Zelda, he was a pig. This time, when were collaborating ideas, we thought "He wouldn't be a pig, would he?" There were even some who thought "I don't want him to be a pig." But I still thought that at least the end should have Ganon as a pig. The whole time I wanted to know what Mr. Miyamoto thought, but in the end, I realized that Mr. Miyamoto didn't have an opinion on the matter, so I decided to do it the way I wanted.
This time, the story really wasn't an original. We were dealing with the "The Imprisoning War of the Seven Sages" from the SNES edition Zelda. To give that game a little "secret" recognition, I thought that keeping the "pigness" in Ganon would be the correct course. So we made him a beast "with the feeling of a pig."
Well, in that sense, "a pig is a pig." When he transforms, and we see the rise of face, there is that not quite concealed feeling of a pig left.
You know there's that cold medicine "Kaigen"*? Well, just between the staff, you know the "Wind God"** character for "Kaigen," some people have even called Ganon that. (laughs) "I've got a cold!"***
(Character Designer Satoru Takizawa)
*Kaigen is a brand of cold medicine
**The wind god is Kaigen's mascot:
http://www3.osk.3web.../kami/tachi.gif
I think the staff like calling Ganon the mascot because they sort of look similar.
*** That quote is probably what the Wind God said in his commercials or something.
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Could you please find how this game connects with the previous ones?
Though in this game Zelda is now included in the Seven Sages, the other six have the names of the town names from the Disk System edition "The Adventure of Link."
In the SNES edition game, the story "Long ago, there was a war called the Imprisoning War" was passed along. A name in the Imprisoning War era is the name of a Town later. They were like "pseudo-secrets." We wanted to throw these out through the entirety of the game. That thing from then is now this.
Tarin and Marin, a father and girl who appeared in "Link's Awakening" (GB) were used as the base for a different parent and child who comes out in this game. These are the things that when they are seen by a person who has played Zelda before they will understand. If people begin to think "Do you think that this could be that thing from then?" then I will be happy.
(Script Director Toru Osawa)
Though in this game Zelda is now included in the Seven Sages, the other six have the names of the town names from the Disk System edition "The Adventure of Link."
In the SNES edition game, the story "Long ago, there was a war called the Imprisoning War" was passed along. A name in the Imprisoning War era is the name of a Town later. They were like "pseudo-secrets." We wanted to throw these out through the entirety of the game. That thing from then is now this.
Tarin and Marin, a father and girl who appeared in "Link's Awakening" (GB) were used as the base for a different parent and child who comes out in this game. These are the things that when they are seen by a person who has played Zelda before they will understand. If people begin to think "Do you think that this could be that thing from then?" then I will be happy.
(Script Director Toru Osawa)
Not exactly a creator comment, but this page of Nintendo.co.jp says that Link's Awakening DX follows Link's defeat of Ganon in A Link to the Past and shows a brief video clip of ALttP's final boss fight.
This post has been edited by Crazy Penguin: 14 March 2007 - 10:58 AM
#4
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Posted 16 March 2007 - 06:43 PM
Just to add, the interview about how long between OOT and WW says hundredS not hundred. It was a mistranslation, and the in game text also says hundredS.
I no longer have it, but an interview said Majora's Mask takes place a few months after OOT.
I no longer have it, but an interview said Majora's Mask takes place a few months after OOT.
#6
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Posted 12 April 2007 - 06:19 PM
http://www.nintendow...5533DAA5F709B70
Total RPG interview with Dan Owsen
http://www.adventure...alrpgowsen.html
Miyamoto's 1999 Game Developer Conference speech
http://www.miyamotos...ws/031899.shtml
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Famitsu: Is there a story connection with the rest of the series?
Aonuma: This time the story begins on an island. It is not the first time a Zelda game has taken place on an island, but you will be surprised if you think it's just like any other island. The game features a whole new story, but it actually takes place some time after a "certain time period" in Ocarina of Time. Of course, in the game, we prepared elements that will remind players of the prequel. As a result, for those that played Ocarina of Time, there will be some parts where they will think, "Ahh, I remember this." The word "tradition" also becomes a key word in the game. I am sure you are concerned with what the previous time period has to do with the setting this time, and also, why the sea? We have included a lot of puzzles that hint at this link, so we really want the fans to be looking forward to this title. Of course, even if you do not consider the link between the series, the story of the game is complete; so that even players that never played the Zelda series can feel comfortable playing.
It is not a game you cannot beat if you did not play the previous titles.
Aonuma: This time the story begins on an island. It is not the first time a Zelda game has taken place on an island, but you will be surprised if you think it's just like any other island. The game features a whole new story, but it actually takes place some time after a "certain time period" in Ocarina of Time. Of course, in the game, we prepared elements that will remind players of the prequel. As a result, for those that played Ocarina of Time, there will be some parts where they will think, "Ahh, I remember this." The word "tradition" also becomes a key word in the game. I am sure you are concerned with what the previous time period has to do with the setting this time, and also, why the sea? We have included a lot of puzzles that hint at this link, so we really want the fans to be looking forward to this title. Of course, even if you do not consider the link between the series, the story of the game is complete; so that even players that never played the Zelda series can feel comfortable playing.
It is not a game you cannot beat if you did not play the previous titles.
http://www.adventure...alrpgowsen.html
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Dan, it appears something about the The Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past translation is jumbled. It is said the events played out in Ocarina of Time were the events that happened in the story of A Link to the Past, and therefor were to solve many story holes. But if Zelda 3's instruction manual is read, these events sound completely different, and now there seem to be more holes than ever. It clearly states on the back of the box of A Link to the Past that it was a prequel to Zeldas 1 and 2, but Miyamoto says it comes after them. What's the truth?
Dan: The truth is, the text on the box (and possibly the Nintendo Power guide) is wrong. D'oh! If you just ignore the box text, the stories fit together better. Basically, the events in Ocarina are the "Imprisoning War" described in the SNES version's story. The Golden Land was the Sacred Realm before Ganondorf corrupted it. The order of the stories is: Ocarina, Zelda 1, Zelda 2, A Link to the Past. Since Link's Awakening was a dream (or was it?) it's hard to say where it fits.
Dan: The truth is, the text on the box (and possibly the Nintendo Power guide) is wrong. D'oh! If you just ignore the box text, the stories fit together better. Basically, the events in Ocarina are the "Imprisoning War" described in the SNES version's story. The Golden Land was the Sacred Realm before Ganondorf corrupted it. The order of the stories is: Ocarina, Zelda 1, Zelda 2, A Link to the Past. Since Link's Awakening was a dream (or was it?) it's hard to say where it fits.
Miyamoto's 1999 Game Developer Conference speech
http://www.miyamotos...ws/031899.shtml
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(Regarding Ocarina of Time's development)
We started with about four or five different teams, each working on basic experiments related to game design.
Scenario and Planning - both very necessary. The team discussed the position of this title in the whole series, and included myself and several dedicated script writers.
We started with about four or five different teams, each working on basic experiments related to game design.
Scenario and Planning - both very necessary. The team discussed the position of this title in the whole series, and included myself and several dedicated script writers.
This post has been edited by Mak: 12 April 2007 - 06:27 PM
#7
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Posted 24 April 2007 - 04:02 PM
Not really about the timeline but... does anyone remember an interview in which the inspiration for the design of Majora's mask (the mask itself) was discussed? (I think it said it was based on old Australian masks...)
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Posted 24 April 2007 - 09:30 PM
I'd just like to add that I find it hilarious that now we have two people who say LoZ and AoL come before ALttP and one who outright says the box is wrong and the fans still disagreed with the idea. I guess those people who still hold onto a single timeline aren't as stubborn as I thought.
#9
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Posted 25 April 2007 - 07:46 AM
I especially like how Dan Owsen comments on the box "error" by explaining how OoT leads into ALttP... then says that LoZ and AoL go inbetween without offering any explanation of how this is supposed to work "better" (which it doesn't for so much as a moment).
And I'd also question what Dan Owsen, who merely translated the game, would know considering the box "mistake" was already on the Japanese box.
I'm glad he doesn't work at Nintendo anymore.
...though the way they asked him the question, I can sorta sympathize with him. It's easier to say "Ah, the box is wrong" than "Ah, the most important person in my company other than the president is wrong".
Also it really IS impressive Miyamoto's record of getting storyline facts ass-backwards. I mean, he said TWW is the oldest story in the timeline? WTF??
And I'd also question what Dan Owsen, who merely translated the game, would know considering the box "mistake" was already on the Japanese box.
I'm glad he doesn't work at Nintendo anymore.
...though the way they asked him the question, I can sorta sympathize with him. It's easier to say "Ah, the box is wrong" than "Ah, the most important person in my company other than the president is wrong".
Also it really IS impressive Miyamoto's record of getting storyline facts ass-backwards. I mean, he said TWW is the oldest story in the timeline? WTF??
This post has been edited by Duke Serkol: 25 April 2007 - 07:58 AM
#10
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Posted 25 April 2007 - 09:48 AM
Duke Serkol, on Apr 25 2007, 07:46 AM, said:
I especially like how Dan Owsen comments on the box "error" by explaining how OoT leads into ALttP... then says that LoZ and AoL go inbetween without offering any explanation of how this is supposed to work "better" (which it doesn't for so much as a moment).
Depends if you want the Sleeping Zelda to really be first-gen Zelda.
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Also it really IS impressive Miyamoto's record of getting storyline facts ass-backwards. I mean, he said TWW is the oldest story in the timeline? WTF??
To be fair, Miyamoto was producer of The Wind Waker, and wasn't involved with its story (that was Aonuma's job). The Wind Waker's name is never once mentioned in that interview, either.
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Posted 25 April 2007 - 11:49 AM
LionHarted, on Apr 25 2007, 02:48 PM, said:
Depends if you want the Sleeping Zelda to really be first-gen Zelda.
Which still doesn't work since the Triforce was in the Sacred Realm during OoT, not used by a just king to rule until he sealed Courage in the Great Palace.
But let's not turn the creator comments thread into a storyline debate.
LionHarted, on Apr 25 2007, 02:48 PM, said:
To be fair, Miyamoto was producer of The Wind Waker, and wasn't involved with its story (that was Aonuma's job). The Wind Waker's name is never once mentioned in that interview, either.
Well, if he doesn't know what the story is like, he shouldn't talk about it. And I think we're referring to different interviews now.
As posted above:
Quote
NP: Where does the latest Zelda game (Wind Waker) fall into the series' mythology? Early in the series or after Majora's Mask?
Miyamoto: This is the very first Zelda story. If all we ever did was try to continue the story, we'd lose some of the interest. It's fun to jump back and forth.
Miyamoto: This is the very first Zelda story. If all we ever did was try to continue the story, we'd lose some of the interest. It's fun to jump back and forth.
From http://www.miyamotos...iews/0702.shtml
This post has been edited by Duke Serkol: 25 April 2007 - 11:59 AM
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Posted 25 April 2007 - 12:36 PM
Duke Serkol, on Apr 25 2007, 11:49 AM, said:
Well, if he doesn't know what the story is like, he shouldn't talk about it. And I think we're referring to different interviews now.
As posted above:
From http://www.miyamotos...iews/0702.shtml
As posted above:
From http://www.miyamotos...iews/0702.shtml
More like "we shouldn't ask so many timeline-related questions".
And the actual interview doesn't specify. "(Wind Waker)" is edited in.
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Posted 25 April 2007 - 07:02 PM
Because I was practically sure he was talking about Wind Waker - the whole rest of the interview is. He did say in an earlier interview that he didn't really have much storyline input, though.
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Posted 25 April 2007 - 09:35 PM
There's another interview around the same time that Miyamoto says they are thinking about placing the Gamecube Zelda near the beginning.
I don't know if it was a translation error about Miyamoto saying the Wind Waker first, but he may have also been talking about the story starting fresh with the Wind Waker, in that it was not a direct continuation like Majora's Mask or Zelda 2: The Adventure of Link was.
There's also the issue of Twilight Princess, where Aonuma was specifically asked in a few questions about its placement and answered it took place after OoT but before TWW, but that obviously was changed when it was released 1-2 years later.
The order Miyamoto gave in 1998 doesn't make since either, like there was a misunderstanding. In the 100 question interview about Zelda 64, he mentions how Ganondorf from the Super Nintendo game is in his human form before he became a monster. So I'd figure he'd have an idea of ALttP's relation to Ocarina of Time.
It's ashame the Triforce of the Gods guide book interview is untranslated, as I've been hoping someone mentions ALttP's relation to the first two games.
The back of the Japanese Zelda 3 box reads
To me that says this game takes place before Link, the character from the previous games, had his adventures and saved Hyrule.
Then it asks if you will become the Legendary Hero, just as A Link to the Past's manual story refers to the player as being the main character, and not refering to the hero as "Link". Link's Awakening's story also refers to the player in its story, instead of calling the hero "Link".
The U.S. box just took it a little further to be specific when it talked about the predecessors of Link and Zelda.
I don't know if it was a translation error about Miyamoto saying the Wind Waker first, but he may have also been talking about the story starting fresh with the Wind Waker, in that it was not a direct continuation like Majora's Mask or Zelda 2: The Adventure of Link was.
There's also the issue of Twilight Princess, where Aonuma was specifically asked in a few questions about its placement and answered it took place after OoT but before TWW, but that obviously was changed when it was released 1-2 years later.
The order Miyamoto gave in 1998 doesn't make since either, like there was a misunderstanding. In the 100 question interview about Zelda 64, he mentions how Ganondorf from the Super Nintendo game is in his human form before he became a monster. So I'd figure he'd have an idea of ALttP's relation to Ocarina of Time.
It's ashame the Triforce of the Gods guide book interview is untranslated, as I've been hoping someone mentions ALttP's relation to the first two games.
The back of the Japanese Zelda 3 box reads
Quote
"The stage is set in the period when Hyrule was one country, long before the actions of Link.
Run, crash, carry, throw. Push, pull, swim, swing your sword....
In the kingdom of Hyrule move freely. If you get your hands on the golden power of the "Triforce" will you become a legendary hero?"
(translation by Zethar-II)
Run, crash, carry, throw. Push, pull, swim, swing your sword....
In the kingdom of Hyrule move freely. If you get your hands on the golden power of the "Triforce" will you become a legendary hero?"
(translation by Zethar-II)
To me that says this game takes place before Link, the character from the previous games, had his adventures and saved Hyrule.
Then it asks if you will become the Legendary Hero, just as A Link to the Past's manual story refers to the player as being the main character, and not refering to the hero as "Link". Link's Awakening's story also refers to the player in its story, instead of calling the hero "Link".
The U.S. box just took it a little further to be specific when it talked about the predecessors of Link and Zelda.
This post has been edited by Mak: 25 April 2007 - 09:43 PM
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Posted 26 April 2007 - 07:58 AM
But don't developer statements trump box text? ;p
No, I mean no one at the time refers to its title.
Showsni, on Apr 25 2007, 07:02 PM, said:
Because I was practically sure he was talking about Wind Waker - the whole rest of the interview is. He did say in an earlier interview that he didn't really have much storyline input, though.
No, I mean no one at the time refers to its title.
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Posted 26 April 2007 - 09:35 AM
Not when said developer has proven several times not to know squat about the story and actually stated his disinterest in it.
(In other words, "Aonuma statements"=possibly reliable, "Miyamoto statements"=pure randomness)
(In other words, "Aonuma statements"=possibly reliable, "Miyamoto statements"=pure randomness)
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Posted 26 April 2007 - 08:08 PM
Duke Serkol, on Apr 26 2007, 08:16 AM, said:
Say Mak, do you remember that interview about the inspiration for the mask of Majora?
I don't think I've seen an interview that states an inspiration for the boss Majora, but I imagine its based similar tales as the "No Mask" from an early episode of the anime Inu Yasha.
Around the time of Super Mario Sunshine, Miyamoto talked about wanting Mario to be more mature, and everyone jumped on this thinking he wanted Mario to start being more serious. He then brought that back up in a later interview when asked about a mature Mario, and clarified that it was misunderstood, and he meant he wanted Mario to appeal to a wider audience, to go back to the appeal the character had in Donkey Kong.
Something can be said in an interview and be misunderstood or translated wrong, and the meaning gets changed. In the interview where Miyamoto gives his order from 1998, everything else in it makes sense, like when he talks about the inclusion of adult and young Link in Ocarina of Time. In the Superplay Magazine, he states that the script writer for A Link to the Past also wrote the story to Link's Awakening, so I imagine he would be even a little aware that Link's Awakening is tied to A Link to the Past, and doesn't just go anywhere.
While we're on that subject I'll quote the Superplay interview. The part about Tanabe originally creating The Legend of Zelda's story and not Miyamoto was a myth going around at the time. And the part about Zelda 3 being the true sequel to The Legend of Zelda, he's of course refering to the game, and not the story that was described as a prequel, just as The Wind Waker was called the true sequel to Ocarina of Time, while Majora's Mask is kinda in the same boat as Zelda 2 and Link's Awakening.
http://www.adventure.../superplay.html
Quote
SP: It is said that the tale of Hyrule was created by Kensuke Tanabe, and he was very inspired by Tolkien's books. How much of the original manuscript was written by him and what was your ideas?
SM: You still talk about the first Zelda game?
SP: Yes
SM: Tanabe wasn't included in the Zelda team before the Zelda Alttp game. He wrote the story to that and Zelda LA game.
SP: So it wasn't him that wrote the original Manuscript?
SM: No,no. All ideas to The legend of Zelda were mine and Takashi Tezukas.
SP: Okay, so what influenced you then?
SM: Books, movies and our own lives. Legend of Zelda was based on my childhood.
SP: The sequel, Zelda II AoL was a different game. Why was that? And why have you never done anything like it again?
SM: It was my orginal idea, but the actual game was developed by another team, different persons that made the first game. Compared to Legend of Zelda, Zelda II went exactly as we first thought. All games I make usually gets better in the developement process since all good ideas are comming, but Zelda II is alittle failure.
SP: So that's why the third game looked like the first one?
SM: Exactly, we actually see A link to the past as the real sequel to Legend of Zelda. Zelda II was more of a sidestory what happend to Link after the happenings in Legend of Zelda.
SP: How does the Zelda games get together? Is there any connection between the different games or do you take tell us a new Zelda story each time?
SM: For every new Zelda game we tell a new story but we actually have an enormous document that explains how the game relate to eachother and bind them together. But to be true they are not too important to us. We care about develope the gamesystem
give the player new challenges for every chapter that are born.
SP: Will the story always come in 2nd when you develope games?
SM: Most important thing for me is that the player should get sucked into the game. I want the games to be easy to understand, and that the people appriciate the games content, its core. I will never deny the importance of a great story but the plot should never get that important that it gets unclear.
SM: You still talk about the first Zelda game?
SP: Yes
SM: Tanabe wasn't included in the Zelda team before the Zelda Alttp game. He wrote the story to that and Zelda LA game.
SP: So it wasn't him that wrote the original Manuscript?
SM: No,no. All ideas to The legend of Zelda were mine and Takashi Tezukas.
SP: Okay, so what influenced you then?
SM: Books, movies and our own lives. Legend of Zelda was based on my childhood.
SP: The sequel, Zelda II AoL was a different game. Why was that? And why have you never done anything like it again?
SM: It was my orginal idea, but the actual game was developed by another team, different persons that made the first game. Compared to Legend of Zelda, Zelda II went exactly as we first thought. All games I make usually gets better in the developement process since all good ideas are comming, but Zelda II is alittle failure.
SP: So that's why the third game looked like the first one?
SM: Exactly, we actually see A link to the past as the real sequel to Legend of Zelda. Zelda II was more of a sidestory what happend to Link after the happenings in Legend of Zelda.
SP: How does the Zelda games get together? Is there any connection between the different games or do you take tell us a new Zelda story each time?
SM: For every new Zelda game we tell a new story but we actually have an enormous document that explains how the game relate to eachother and bind them together. But to be true they are not too important to us. We care about develope the gamesystem
give the player new challenges for every chapter that are born.
SP: Will the story always come in 2nd when you develope games?
SM: Most important thing for me is that the player should get sucked into the game. I want the games to be easy to understand, and that the people appriciate the games content, its core. I will never deny the importance of a great story but the plot should never get that important that it gets unclear.
I should also mention that there was an interview about Four Sword Adventures where Miyamoto mentions making the development team simplify the ending to the game, as he said a game like that shouldn't be too complicated to understand.
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Posted 26 April 2007 - 08:43 PM
Mak, on Apr 27 2007, 01:08 AM, said:
I don't think I've seen an interview that states an inspiration for the boss Majora, but I imagine its based similar tales as the "No Mask" from an early episode of the anime Inu Yasha.
Ah, you mean its magical properties? I meant its looks. I seem to remember an interview in which it was said what real world masks inspired it.
Mak, on Apr 27 2007, 01:08 AM, said:
I should also mention that there was an interview about Four Sword Adventures where Miyamoto mentions making the development team simplify the ending to the game, as he said a game like that shouldn't be too complicated to understand.
...
At times like this I come very close to considering Shigsy a necessary evil.
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Posted 06 July 2007 - 07:29 PM
Sorry to double post but I have a question fitting for this thread: was there or was there not an interview (or quote from Zelda Box, whatever) in which Link's age during TWW was stated to be twelve years old?
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Posted 06 July 2007 - 07:37 PM
Duke Serkol, on Jul 7 2007, 12:29 AM, said:
Sorry to double post but I have a question fitting for this thread: was there or was there not an interview (or quote from Zelda Box, whatever) in which Link's age during TWW was stated to be twelve years old?
I distinctly remember such an interview but I can't help ya there.
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Posted 07 July 2007 - 08:51 PM
It's certainly the commonly held view... Although, since he's supposed to be the same age as OoT Link, and interviews place OoT Link as 7-8 years old, you'd think he'd be younger. I'm having difficulty tracking down the source, though...
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Posted 08 July 2007 - 05:10 PM
Showsni, on Jul 8 2007, 01:51 AM, said:
since he's supposed to be the same age as OoT Link, and interviews place OoT Link as 7-8 years old, you'd think he'd be younger. I'm having difficulty tracking down the source, though...
I don't remember those OoT age interviews either. Since you ar elooking for the TWW one mind trying to track those down too?
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Posted 08 July 2007 - 06:01 PM
Don't bother looking. Link's age in TWW was made up by NOA. Guesswork based on his appearance, they once said.
As for OoT Link, Miyamoto did say he was 7-8 years old in OoT, but adult Link definitely looks older than 15 to me...
As for OoT Link, Miyamoto did say he was 7-8 years old in OoT, but adult Link definitely looks older than 15 to me...
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Posted 09 July 2007 - 08:47 AM
Forgetting for a moment how much nonsense Miyamoto says during interviews (OoT-LoZ-AoL-AlttP anynone?) that could indicate, if we assume he was off by just one year (i.e. that Link was 9) that all "adult Links" are really 16 as Jumbie believes (based on the fact that TP Link has been said to be 16 and that it stands to reason for the Hero of Time to be ready to face Ganon at the same age when AoL Link is ready to go seek the Triforce of Courage).
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Posted 11 July 2007 - 10:45 AM
Duke Serkol, on Jul 8 2007, 11:10 PM, said:
Showsni, on Jul 8 2007, 01:51 AM, said:
since he's supposed to be the same age as OoT Link, and interviews place OoT Link as 7-8 years old, you'd think he'd be younger. I'm having difficulty tracking down the source, though...
I don't remember those OoT age interviews either. Since you ar elooking for the TWW one mind trying to track those down too?
It's one of the ones I've quoted above - http://www.miyamotos...ews/08982.shtml
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Posted 12 July 2007 - 07:15 AM
Duke Serkol, on Jul 9 2007, 02:47 PM, said:
(based on the fact that TP Link has been said to be 16 and that it stands to reason for the Hero of Time to be ready to face Ganon at the same age when AoL Link is ready to go seek the Triforce of Courage).
Can you confirm where Link was said to be 16 in Twilight Princess?