24 replies to this topic

[Arturo]

You might know about those Zelda Retrospective trailers. They have posted a timeline.


Sleeping Zelda>TMC>Child OoT>MM>LA>LoZ>AoL>FS>FSA>ALttP>OoX*
Sleeping Zelda>TMC>Adult OoT>TWW>OoX*

*One of the games would take place in Adult Timeline and the other in Child.


The worst timeline I have seen in ages....

[Raien]

You might know about those Zelda Retrospective trailers. They have posted a timeline.
Sleeping Zelda>TMC>Child OoT>MM>LA>LoZ>AoL>FS>FSA>ALttP>OoX*
Sleeping Zelda>TMC>Adult OoT>TWW>OoX*

*One of the games would take place in Adult Timeline and the other in Child.
The worst timeline I have seen in ages....

I believe in a different timeline altogether and still agree wholeheartedly.

[Mgoblue201]

I've been commenting on this all day and I've been saying that it's pretty bad. They completely ignore half the evidence in the series. I think that's something most people here can agree on.

Edited by Mgoblue201, 21 November 2006 - 10:38 AM.

[Arturo]

I believe in a different timeline altogether and still agree wholeheartedly.

With whom?

Anyway, it is terrible that lots of people will see the video and believe in the timeline. There are many sensible Timelines, but tjis one is far from it. OoT>MM>LA>LoZ.... ridiculous.

[Raien]

With whom?

With you, of course. I ain't no n00b.

[Arturo]

I thought so, but the wording said otherwise.

[mmmmm_PIE]

Lolz, don't know what's better, the fogetting of FS or the OoX argument.

So do we do something about it?

[Arturo]

I added FS for the sake of logic... Buit MM>LA is worse.

[Tri-Enforcer]

I added FS for the sake of logic... Buit MM>LA is worse.

Yeah, that was just ridiculous there. Everyone knows (well apparently not) that LA is immediately after aLttP. That timeline made the split timeline theory, look less credible and ridiculous. Well at least here whether you believe in the split or single, we can all say that we've seen better split timeline theories. At least that site made a disclaimer that their timeline is unofficial and just theory.

[jman]

I added FS for the sake of logic... Buit MM>LA is worse.

Can someone tell me where I can see these wacky timelines? WTF compells somebody to put LA after MM? Did they not think about the context of LA being made after LTTP and that just maybe it was meant to be the same Link? Crazy MON!

[Jumbie]

Can someone tell me where I can see these wacky timelines?

You can see the video here.

I liked how they started off explaining why TMC comes before OoT, and how they gave the correct reasons as for why OoT's ending splits the timeline. But after MM, things really got confusing, as they ironically put it themselves. Just taking the next best game, LA here, and putting it where it *might* fit, even though it fits elsewhere much better - that was totally unsupported by evidence.

Did they not think about the context of LA being made after LTTP and that just maybe it was meant to be the same Link?

Well, in fact they're partly going with the obsolete Single Link theory, claiming that LA features OoT's Link, and they even make him the hero of LoZ and AoL, too!

The part about Oracles did get me thinking though... Haven't come to a conclusion yet.

Btw, anybody understand why they claimed that TMC's Hero of Men is the ancient King Gustaf of Hyrule?!

[coinilius]

Btw, anybody understand why they claimed that TMC's Hero of Men is the ancient King Gustaf of Hyrule?!

Like others have said, that was a pretty terrible 'examination' of the Zelda timeline, with some very big flaws concerning the various games...

And no, I did not understand that part about Gustaf at all - it's not made clear anywhere in the game that Gustaf is the hero of the MC's backstory... although I'm not totally against the idea as a theory, but the way they claim it as an absolute is baffling

[TSA]

Just to destroy the Oracle theory they had - try playing the games...linked together...

Wow! You can cross the timeline to be in both games with a connecting story? Sorry, they obviously overlooked Oracles are a single "story", it's just the order is up to you...but most just lump them "together" to save time and cut out frustration.

[coinilius]

Just to destroy the Oracle theory they had - try playing the games...linked together...

Wow! You can cross the timeline to be in both games with a connecting story? Sorry, they obviously overlooked Oracles are a single "story", it's just the order is up to you...but most just lump them "together" to save time and cut out frustration.

Yeah, I noticed that as well - it's especially bad, because they also refered to the linked game ending (with the revival of Ganon), but obviously didn't put in enough research time to notice that in a linked game one game pretty much directly continues into the next one.

Edited by coinilius, 21 November 2006 - 06:49 PM.

[jman]

I think it's cool that they're trying to put it all together and have made a vid of it.
However they did lose me in some parts, namely ALTTP occurring after LOZ and AOL which brings up way big inconsistencies, that and the LA being after MM (not thinking of the context of its creation right after ALTTP and that the Map draws multiple similarities to ALTTP's like the turtle rock). BY using this reasoning of how Link returned to Hyrule, I'm surprized they didn't place LA after OOx since Link leaves on a boat. That would make more sense anway.
I also wasn't big on the sort of half-arsed one Link theory that tied MM>LA to LOZ. I thought in the Japanese LOZ it states that Link was born in Calatia which wasn't in central Hyrule. And Link didn't know who Impa was when he saved her in LOZ did he?
Plus wasn't Ganon sealed in FSA? SO if he won the war that would mean sometime after AOL he was sealed wouldn't it?
And as for the Oracle games occurring at the same time, I think if you believe the split, a much stronger tie can be made between ALTTP and WW occuring at the same time, but in separate timelines. OOX don't seem like they should be in different timelines. The fact that you can play them in any order is cool, but there must be a correct placement for both of them sometime after ALTTP since the triforce is united.
I think they used a lot of fanfiction.... However I suppose that their theory solves the whereabouts of the TOC between when the Sleeping Zelda was put to sleep and ALTTP, but it's not enough to sell me their plot.

Can somebody tell me if they're aying Gustaf is the father of SZ?

Edited by jman, 21 November 2006 - 11:13 PM.

[coinilius]

Can somebody tell me if they're aying Gustaf is the father of SZ?

I hope they were, but I don't think they specified, actually... ever since reading the MC manga though, I've had a soft spot for connecting the Gustaf backstory and the Sleeping Zelda backstory (though not necesarily with Gustaf being the hero of men)...

And the Calatia thing comes from the Valiant comics, not from a Nintendo penned source

[jman]

I hope they were, but I don't think they specified, actually... ever since reading the MC manga though, I've had a soft spot for connecting the Gustaf backstory and the Sleeping Zelda backstory (though not necesarily with Gustaf being the hero of men)...

And the Calatia thing comes from the Valiant comics, not from a Nintendo penned source

Yeh I don't know too much about the Gustaf thing, but I guess it could make sense.

Oh really, some mofo told me Calatia was mentioned in the japanese manual which I thought was bullplop cos I searched thru the english manual and never found it. I guess it's possible then that a few of the Links could be the same. However it seems to me as I have previously stated that every time a Zelda game comes out there is another game which is another quest with the same Link. I posted this in the mailbag years ago calling it "every Link gets two" basically saying that back then we had LOZ AOL LInk, LTTP LA LInk, OOT MM LInk. Now we seem to have WW PH Link too. At the time, the games were out they didn't seem to be the same Link.

[Alardonin]

Just to destroy the Oracle theory they had - try playing the games...linked together...

Wow! You can cross the timeline to be in both games with a connecting story? Sorry, they obviously overlooked Oracles are a single "story", it's just the order is up to you...but most just lump them "together" to save time and cut out frustration.

that's exactly what i thought, when i was watching it. It was more in the lines of: It can't get worst then this? Yet, they still surprised me. This is not necessarily a bad thing, as it might open the minds of some people toward the legends.

[Raien]

that's exactly what i thought, when i was watching it. It was more in the lines of: It can't get worst then this? Yet, they still surprised me. This is not necessarily a bad thing, as it might open the minds of some people toward the legends.

More like opening minds to baseless speculation. As a theorist, I took nothing whatsoever from that theory.

[Alardonin]

More like opening minds to baseless speculation. As a theorist, I took nothing whatsoever from that theory.

What if people start gaining interest in the timeline exactly because of that episode. You only need to study it in orther to realize, that it is, what it is. Some people need more then their own mind to gain interest on the timeline of the series. I personally didn't need anything but the games to gain interest in it, but other people are not like that. Most of them don't even care, mind or even realize that its there.

[Showsni]

Ouch. I can't see the video, but that timeline looks pretty bad... Zelda sleeping whilst the ToC is being used? MM into LA? LoZ and AoL before ALttP? Where do they put the Imprisoning War - not as OoT, surely, with Ganon out and about in between? OoS in a seperate timeline to OoA???

[coinilius]

Ouch. I can't see the video, but that timeline looks pretty bad... Zelda sleeping whilst the ToC is being used? MM into LA? LoZ and AoL before ALttP? Where do they put the Imprisoning War - not as OoT, surely, with Ganon out and about in between? OoS in a seperate timeline to OoA???

If I remember correctly, I think they used FSA as the lead in to ALttP...

EDIT: Ahh, they place FSA before ALttP because Ganon gets the Trident in FSA and uses it in ALttP. They just talk about events of the adult ending of OoT being passed down as legends, which is something to do with Ganon's sealing in ALttP. Or something.

Edited by coinilius, 22 November 2006 - 11:55 PM.

[mmmmm_PIE]

Well, after watching the video and finding myself with an empty afternoon, I decided to make my dissatisfaction known. If anyone would like to join me in a likely-to-be-ignored, highly annoying rost:

To the fine film makers responsible for the Zelda Retrospective

We, the undersigned, feel that the final installment of your six part documentary was counterproductive to the effort fans everywhere make to understand the Legend of Zelda chronology. As experienced timeline theorists, we well understand the complexities and uncertainties involved in the attempt to puzzle out Hylian history. We understand your use of a disclaimer, and, while we appreciate your willingness to be ambiguous, we still feel that you have muddled the timeline in a way that no amount of scapegoating can reconcile.
In doing so, we feel that you have added to the considerable amount of timeline confusion which exists throughout the web, squandered an opportunity to assist in alleviating this confusion, and shown a saddening disregard for elements of the series you were trying to commemorate.

Despite the large amount of debate concerning timeline issues such as the number of timelines, the exact placement of TMC, and the nature of the Seal War, there are four story “arcs” which informed theorists consider indisputable, nearly canonical, and your timeline theory managed to devastate three of the four. You claim to have read a "ton" of theories, but it is quite clear that you did not explore deep enough!

Concerning “The Minish Cap ~ Four Swords ~ Four Swords Adventures” Arc:
It is called the Four Swords Trilogy for a reason. There are three games! FSA is NOT a remake of FS, but a sequel with is own unique storyline, and both deserve a place in the timeline. Observing that you granted FS only 10 seconds of airtime in part 4 of your retrospective, and completely ignored it in your timeline, we wonder if you have even played the game at all.


Concerning the “A Link to the Past ~ Link's Awakening ~ Legend of Zelda ~ Adventure of Link” Arc:
LoZ and AoL cannot possibly feature the Hero of Time, or even take place in the same century as OOT. At the beginning of the 8 bit storyline, the Triforce of Courage is sealed away in the Northern palace where it was placed by a past King) and has been resting there for centuries.
In you “Hyrule A” the Triforce of Courage is never even removed from the Sacred Realm, and even if it were, there is not nearly enough time for the entire AoL back story to occur during the lifespan of the Hero of Time.

Furthermore, AlttP is a direct prequel to LoZ. The Japanese box art refers to the Link and Zelda of AlttP as being the ancestors (predecessors is substituted in English, to the same effect) of those in the NES games. While there are few actual material connections between the games, Easter Eggs found in the Japanese “BS Zelda” releases further support Nintendo's intention of AlttP preceding LoZ.

Despite the poorly translated packaging of Link's Awakening DX, we know for a fact that it does not star the Hero of Time. In fact, the game was released before the concept of said incarnation was created. According to LA manual (original and DX), the game stars the “Legendary Hero” (AlttP's protagonist) who “worried over Ganon's ashes” (Ganon was dead post AlttP, not post MM).
Throughout the games, Link comes face to face with nightmares that resemble the enemies of AlttP (including a shadowy Agahnim) and according to the official artwork, battles them with the same sword and shield used by AlttP's hero.
As Nintendo has stated in the past (though, we understand, with a definite lack of consistency), LA is AlttP's sequel

Concerning the “OoS ~ OoA” Arc:
Frankly, this one caught us off guard. By you comments in Episode 4, you understand the interconnection between these games and have played a linked game through to the end. You should know then, that together the games represent a single tale, a grand storyline which can as easily be seen as a whole as the sum of two parts.
Splitting the games between timelines seems unprecedented. Could characters such as Bippin and Blossom, Moosh, Dimitri, or Rickey, who recognize Link between linked games, somehow make the trans-dimensional jump from one reality to the next? Of course not!

Yes, the games have similar beginnings, and can be taken in either order (though there is evidence for Seasons to be placed first, especially when considerin the manga, as your evaluation of TMC suggests you do) but that is no reason to split them in such a way.

Concerning the “OoT ~ (MM) ~ tWW” Arc:
No problems. But hey twenty five percent ain't bad...

We hereby leave this information in your hands, to respong to, ignore, or act upon as you will.
Sincerely:
Bryan Fauher
Uncle Meat
Vaati
Raian
LexLionhart
DarkenZero24
Vatti 2705

PS: Thank you all very much for the fine video series, for birthing interest in the timeline in a new generation of gamers, for an excellent showcase of one of the greatest videogaming accomplishments of all time, and for giving us "extremist fanboys" oone last thing to whine about before TP brings all our fantastic theories crashing down on our shoulders.

Our only real complaint is the out-of-context manner in which you employed the Aonuma "split line" quote (though we imagine that this is the manner in which it was explained to you")
http://www.zeldawiki...Timeline_Quotes

[Darunia]

Well, after watching the video and finding myself with an empty afternoon, I decided to make my dissatisfaction known. If anyone would like to join me in a likely-to-be-ignored, highly annoying rost:

Even though I don't agree with the Split Timeline theory, I must admit that their bastardization of the timelines was a bad idea. I would like my name to be hereby affixed to the list of the undersigned, simply because I did not like how they ruined the story that we've all come to love.

You have my support.

Darunia - Sage of Legend

[SOAP]

If it's not too late I'd like to be added.