17 replies to this topic

[Arturo]

This is certainly not my style, but I was so bored that I thought this *may* revitalize the Storyline section. So, here it comes....

LoZ

With one game, the conclusion is straightforward

LoZ>AoL

Evident reasons

ALttP>LoZ>AoL

ALttP tells how Ganondorf was born, and about the SW, so unless you want two Gannies at the same time, this is the most sensible order

ALttP>KnS/LA>LoZ>AoL

KnS speaks of ALttP as a backstory, and it provides more proofs for ALttP>LA. Don't even try to contradict this, in the LA manual it even says which new abilities (those that weren't in ALttP) you have in LA.

OoT>ALttP>KnS/LA>LoZ>AoL

Since OoT is the Seal War, it should come before ALttP.

OoT>MM>ALttP>KnS/LA>LoZ>AoL

I don't need to speak about this

OoT>MM>ALttP>KnS/LA>OoX>LoZ>AoL

Since OoX shows a united Triforce, so it must come either after ALttP or AoL. It cannot be proved which placement is correct, but for story reasons I prefer having AoL at the end.

FS>OoT>MM>ALttP>KnS/LA>OoX>LoZ>AoL

Though there aren't proofs for an early placing of FS, that's what creators said.

FS>Child OoT>MM>ALttP>KnS/LA>OoX>LoZ>AoL
FS>Adult OoT>TWW

Here happens the split, since OoT is both ALttP and TWW back-story, they must be on different timelines. TWW is in Adult Timeline for they remember better the details on OoT, and remember the Hero as an adult (see the sculpture at Hyrule Castle). ALttP is in Child because of the confusion of details, already hinted by MM, where it's said that Link is one of the legends of the Royal Family, and since so very few people knew about this, the legend was likely to be forgotten.

Child OoT>MM>ALttP>KnS/LA>OoX>FS>FSA>LoZ>AoL
Adult OoT>TWW

The early placing of FS is disproved by its sequel, FSA, where Ganon is shown as the "ancient Demon reborn", since he's born in OoT, both FS and FSA must come after both OoT and a game where Ganon is killed. This game might be OoX, since he even shows the same pleasure for destruction of the FSA one that the OoT-ALttP-TWW one didn't.

TMC>Child OoT>MM>ALttP>KnS/LA>OoX>FS>FSA>LoZ>AoL
TMC>Adult OoT>TWW

It was a difficult decision to separate TMC from FS-FSA. But I think to have found enough proofs for an early placing. It's the only game where Minish are known (although they must exist in the other ones) and the Wind Tribe. Also Link receives his hat in TMC and the final sentence implies TMC Link to be the first one.


And this is my timeline, and my effort to revitalize Storyline. I know it's not really original but... that's the only thing I could think of. Now, please discuss, find flaws and tell me I am stupid. Maybe that way we get to discuss something interesting.

So... Bye bye *hides waiting for a response*

[Duke Serkol]

My theories differ when placing FS-FSA (don't you think the ending of FSA is meant to tie into the Palace of Four Swords from ALttP GBA? And there's the defunct Knights of Hyrule that can be seen as a clue too, not to mention the later on migrated Gorons.)

But otherwise *thumbs up*

Edited by Duke Serkol, 01 October 2006 - 06:52 AM.

[Arturo]

If you put FS-FSA between OoT-ALttP you are contradicting the SW account. There are many reasons why FSA can't be before ALttP, being the most important ones:

-In ALttP they remember how Ganon was sealed, while in FSA no-one except Zelda seems to have ever herad about Ganon.
-In OoT Ganon is sealed in the Dark World until Link kills him in ALttP. In FSA Ganon is the ANCIENT DEMON REBORN. To be reborn you normally have to be dead. And Ganon only dies in ALttP, OoX and LoZ. Unless you use the Shinentai myth here, so the sealed Ganon splits his soul as a plan to release himself, creating FSA Ganon. But this is way too complicated and has no basis.


As for the Palace of the Four Sword I see it like this: I think that the Light Force is the Triforce, and that previously to OoT the ancient Sages hid it in its original resting place, the Temple of Light=Pyramid of Power. If they put the Triforce in the Light temple why not the Four Sword, the other gift by the Picoris? I can give further justification for this.

[Jumbie]

Yay, a new thread!
Well what can I say, there's not much for me to disagree with your timeline, apart from that tiny little issue that I won't get into detail about Anyway, it's quite obvious that for me this is the perfect timeline.

And Duke Serkol, I'm familiar with your timeline theory, it's partly what I based my own on, but I have a question on your placement of FSA... How do you explain that Ganondorf was reborn as a Gerudo while his demon form was supposed to still be sealed within the Dark World (after OoT's child ending)? Or for that matter, where does the Trident / Ganon's demon form in FSA originate from, if not from a Ganon that was killed in a game like ALttP or OoX? I couldn't find answers on that in your storyline FAQs..

[MikePetersSucks]

That's pretty much my theory save for TMC's placement.

[Arturo]

This is nothing but an excuse to start a discussion. So, which evdence do you use to put TMC so near to FS-FSA?

[MikePetersSucks]

Intuition, really.

[mmmmm_PIE]

Here happens the split, since OoT is both ALttP and TWW back-story, they must be on different timelines.

Quite sure I'm misunderstanding here, but are you suggesting that the adult portion of OOT happens in the "child line"?

[Arturo]

Adult OoT happens just on Adult Timeline.

[mmmmm_PIE]

Thought so. But in that case, where does the seal war (AlttP's backstory SW) come in on your Timeline?

Edited by mmmmm_PIE, 09 October 2006 - 11:23 AM.

[Arturo]

It's a mixture of the Child Timeline events and the Adult Timeline ones.

We see Link going back to a time when, though the DoT is open, Ganon is not around anymore. I think that after Link gets the MS, Ganondorf enters the SR and touches the Triforce,. His evil spreads fronm the temples of Hyrule and the Knights fight it. Then, he's suddenly sealed by the Seven Sages on the Adult Timeline. The Seal trascends both timeliens and when he's sealed on the Adult one, so he is in the Child one. Then Link comes, speaks to Zelda and explains everything. The Seal War is nothing more than the the way the events from Oot are confused. If you don't undersrand my way of thinking, I may ellaborated more on this. But not now. You can read the topic on the Perfect Timeline, where I speak about this. And maybe on a not so distant future I will write something about this on ZL

[LionHarted]

I like this game. I've written something very similar to this--only it argues a single-timeline.

Timeline of the Timeline

1. The Legend of Zelda II: Adventure of Link (AoL) is released on the Nintendo Entertainment System. It establishes positive ties with the original Legend of Zelda (LoZ) game, and establishes the earliest known “timeline.”

LoZ/AoL

2. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past (ALttP) is released on the Super Nintendo. Information found in the instruction manual speaks of a Golden Land in which the Triforce was hidden. Since these origins are not mentioned in the original LoZ, this places ALttP before LoZ so as to avoid inconsistency.

ALttP-LoZ/AoL

3. The Legend of Zelda: Link’s Awakening (LA) is released on the Nintendo Game Boy. It is firmly established as a direct sequel to ALttP, and, as such, comes between ALttP and LoZ/AoL.

ALttP/LA-LoZ/AoL

4. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (OoT) is released on the Nintendo 64. At the time, it was heralded as the details of the Imprisoning War mentioned in the instruction manual of ALttP. This places OoT before ALttP.

OoT-ALttP/LA-LoZ/AoL

5. The Legend of Zelda: Majora’s Mask (MM) is released on the Nintendo 64 as a gaiden—a Japanese term for “sideplot”—to the OoT ending. As such, it comes “between” OoT and ALttP (although the game would have literally happened sometime during the course of OoT events).

OoT/MM-ALttP/LA-LoZ/AoL

6. The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Seasons (OoS) and The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Ages (OoA) are released simultaneously for the Game Boy Color. They portray the Triforce as being in Hyrule Castle. Since the Triforce was in the hands of the Royal Family until at least the Sleeping Zelda story from the AoL instruction manual, it makes the most sense to place the Oracle games in between ALttP/LA and LoZ/AoL.

OoT/MM-ALttP/LA-OoS/OoA-LoZ/AoL

7. The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords (FS) is released along with a Game Boy Advance port of ALttP. At the time of its release, FS had no definite placement, although its release alongside ALttP seems to have suggested that it takes place sometime nearby ALttP.

OoT/MM-ALttP/LA-OoS/OoA-LoZ/AoL FS???

8. The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker (TWW) is released on the Nintendo GameCube. It takes place hundreds of years after the events of OoT, and has direct connections to the events of OoT, so common sense places it after OoT/MM, with no other games coming in-between. TWW, however, features a Ganon, escaped from the Sacred Realm, even though Ganon is said to have broken the seal later on in ALttP. This creates an apparent dilemma, but some clues from ALttP’s instruction manual still allow for TWW to be placed in-between without any absolutely necessary overwrite:

“Many centuries have passed since the Imprisoning War. Hyrule was in a time of peace, for its people had wise and devout hearts. The sealing became a distant legend.”

Much of the context from TWW caters to the two underlined quotes:

“Hundreds of years have passed since then...”; “The memory of the kingdom vanished, but its legend survived on the wind's breath.”

TWW allots the “many centuries” alluded to in the ALttP instruction manual, as well as the sealing becoming “a distant legend.”

OoT/MM-TWW-ALttP/LA-OoS/OoA-LoZ/AoL FS???

This still does not explain, however, the seal cast by the Sages that exists in ALttP, nor Ganon’s reappearance after his death at the end of TWW. Luckily, the next Zelda title sets us up perfectly.

9. The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Adventures (FSA) is released on the Nintendo GameCube as a direct sequel to the original FS. Vaati is released again from the seal of the Four Sword as a part of a plot by the evil thief Ganondorf to claim ultimate power. This game establishes that Ganondorf the thief has been reincarnated, and shows Ganon, along with many Dark World portals, being sealed.

This allows for a few possible theories explaining ALttP:
1) The seals cast in FSA are the same seals that exist in ALttP;
2) Ganon escapes, and he claims the Triforce, leading into the traditional Imprisoning War that takes place just before ALttP;
3) Ganon escapes, is killed, and another reincarnated in his place to instigate the traditional Imprisoning War that takes place just before ALttP

The overall timeline at this stage is as follows, though:

OoT/MM-TWW-FS/FSA-ALttP/LA-OoS/OoA-LoZ/AoL

10. The Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap (TMC) is released on the Game Boy Advance as a prequel to FS/FSA. It explains Vaati’s origins, but not much else. Without any positive evidence towards any other placement, common sense puts it before FS, with no games coming in-between.

OoT/MM-TWW-TMC-FS/FSA-ALttP/LA-OoS/OoA-LoZ/AoL

11. The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (TP) is announced for the Nintendo GameCube and Wii as being another “sequel” to OoT, and coming a few decades after OoT. This places it in-between OoT/MM and TWW. TP may further explain the events that lead up to the Flood, and to the passing of the OoT story (the Imprisoning War story?) into legend. The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass (PH) is announced for the Nintendo DS as a sequel to TWW, which places it immediately after.

OoT/MM-TP-TWW/PH-TMC-FS/FSA-ALttP/LA-OoS/OoA-LoZ/AoL

Edited by LionHarted, 18 October 2006 - 06:13 PM.

[Darunia]

LionHearted:

Nice Single timeline. Only problem I see with it is the TMC placement. In TMC, the game practically explains how Link got his signature green tunic and hat. In TMC, these things seem brand new. So are we to accept that the creators of the game just used artistic license to make this game, and not worry at all about the placement? Or do we accept the possibility that the placement might be wrong where it is right now?

Could it be at the beginning instead?


So, instead of this one: OoT/MM-TP-TWW/PH-TMC-FS/FSA-ALttP/LA-OoS/OoA-LoZ/AoL

We'd have this one: TMC-OoT/MM-TP-TWW/PH-FS/FSA-ALttP/LA-OoS/OoA-LoZ/AoL

Maybe this one could work. I dunno. No substantial evidence either way.

Darunia - Sage of Legend

[Showsni]

In TMC, the game practically explains how Link got his signature green tunic and hat. In TMC, these things seem brand new.

It explains how that Link got it, sure. But why should that affect how any other Links got a hat? They're not generally even connected to each other. (Except for all ultimately coming from the Knight's bloodline).

Edited by Showsni, 02 November 2006 - 06:56 AM.

[LionHarted]

I see no reason why they should spread the games in the side series (Four Swords) across the entire timeline rather than consolidate them in between the main story arcs (3D games and 2D games).

[Arturo]

Hello?

This topic was about my timeline. It's not that i don't want opther timelines to be debated, but I don't think Lionharted's placing of TMC has anything to do with my timeline.

And the thread was old.

[Darunia]

Hello?

This topic was about my timeline. It's not that i don't want opther timelines to be debated, but I don't think Lionharted's placing of TMC has anything to do with my timeline.

And the thread was old.

Sorry. I meant no harm. I was just replying to a previous poster. I think there's room for debate on the splitting of the timelines, as I do prefer a single one.

Darunia - Sage of Legend

[Chaltab]

Pretty good timeline, really, Arturo. I know I'm never going to get anyone to agree with me on my placement of the Oracles and LA before ALTTP, and your timeline seems to make sense as far as I can see. (I'm not one to pour over text-dumps for any little plot details that might dispute your theory.)