21 replies to this topic

[Doopliss]

The storyline forum has been offensively inactive, so I thought it would be a good idea to post my timeline here so we get something to talk about that isn’t FS, OoT’s ending, the Imprisoning War or whether KnS is canon or not. I had never posted my timeline, actually, I had never before thought of a concrete one. I think this is a good one, it took me some time to think about it.

The order of the games is this: ALttP, LA, Oracle games, TMC, FS, FSA, LoZ, AoL, OoT, MM, TWW.

It is a single timeline theory because of personal preferences of the author.

I think we can’t place the Four Sword games before the second game, which can be either ALttP or OoT because the Dark World already existed by that time. Plus, Ganon is dead and he is an ancient demon reborn by that time. This argument isn’t strong as the Dark World, but it helps to give more credibility to this placement.

Both ALttP and OoT can be first. I have decided to place ALttP before because it is difficult to place any game that takes place in Hyrule after TWW because of the flood and what the King of Red Lions says. People in ALttP seem to have a better knowledge about the Triforce, which suggests that they are near to the creation of Hyrule. The Master Sword was created before the Imprisoning War. I think the IW and OoT are different because of the inconsistencies. Though we could place OoT between the MS’s creation and the IW, I feel more inclined to think that the MS was used for the first time in ALttP.

Between the IW and ALttP there aren’t any games involving Ganon because of the maiden’s quote. Here is the first Ganon, the original one. Obviously, La is after ALttP. I placed the Oracle games next because we see the Triforce together and Ganon is dead.

The Four Sword games come next. Ganon is dead after the Oracles, but this doesn’t matter since Ganon is reborn in FSA. Probably the Trident of Darkness was taken to the Pyramid of Power by someone who wished that Ganon returned some day. There are a group of people that offer power to the one that takes the Trident in the pyramid, which could be the Ancient Tribe of Evil, which Agahnim belongs to. The Dark World still exists, probably because the Sacred Realm hasn’t returned to its original state yet, or people simply remember it with that name since AlttP. In this game Ganondorf 1 appears.

LoZ/AoL must be placed after ALttP because it is stated that they are the descendants of the characters from AlttP. LoZ’s backstory states that Ganon had stolen the Triforce a long time ago, so I assume he stole it from the Royal Family after ALttP. The Sleeping Zelda story could have happened after this game. Ganon somehow managed to escape the Four Sword’s seal. He is killed in the end.

Then comes OoT. ALttP and LoZ explain fairly well why the sages would decide to create the Temple of Time. Many time has happened since Hyrule was created, so naturally people know less about the Triforce than they did in ALttP. Here is where Ganondorf 2 appears, though Ganon continues being the same demon as always. I think what we see in TWW is actually Ganondorf and not Ganon, so presumably Ganondorf didn’t lose the control of his body.

It isn’t too long, but I think it is logical and neat, without too many speculation.

[Showsni]

I like it. Wonder why that is...

Just a quick question - where does the sleeping Zelda story go? Sometime between Oracles and LoZ, I presume. I have oracles a bit later on so that it doesn't add an extra Zelda before the sleeping one, and as the catalyst for the creation of the ToT, etc.

[spunky-monkey]

Well, I imagine it will be quite busy post-E3 Timelines are so hotly disputed that it's difficult to have a discussion on anything to do with canon-material and the chronology of Zelda.

Not a bad single timeline theory, though it should be mentioned in your preferences that you ignored the "MS sleeps forever!" line. The biggest problem with this theory is FSA doesn't fit well after ALttP because the Dark World was already destroyed. Now if Ganondorf had corrupted it all over again in Ocarina of Time then FSA would logically have to come after OoT, MM and TWW games...

Overall its very good - you may need to mention how many Links are in your theory though. OoS/OoA coming after ALttP/LA suggests to the reader that it could be the same Hero.

[Crazy Penguin]

Seriously, Ocarina of Time should go before A Link to the Past. I don't think it's even a point for debate, it was clearly intended that way.

And the GBA version of A Link to the Past has the bonus dungeon, Palace of the Four Sword, so unless you ignore it, it should take place after The Minish Cap at the very least.

The biggest problem with this theory is FSA doesn't fit well after ALttP because the Dark World was already destroyed.

It was still kind of there in the Oracle games too, and they were rather clear with their post-LttP setting I think.

[Showsni]

And the SZ story was clearly intended to explain why every princess is called Zelda. Later additions made it impossible to come first, though - just as things like TWW have changed the OoT ALttp connection.

[Crazy Penguin]

And the SZ story was clearly intended to explain why every princess is called Zelda.

Not really, at the time there was nothing to explain.

[Doopliss]

Well, I imagine it will be quite busy post-E3 Timelines are so hotly disputed that it's difficult to have a discussion on anything to do with canon-material and the chronology of Zelda.

Not a bad single timeline theory, though it should be mentioned in your preferences that you ignored the "MS sleeps forever!" line. The biggest problem with this theory is FSA doesn't fit well after ALttP because the Dark World was already destroyed. Now if Ganondorf had corrupted it all over again in Ocarina of Time then FSA would logically have to come after OoT, MM and TWW games...

Overall its very good - you may need to mention how many Links are in your theory though. OoS/OoA coming after ALttP/LA suggests to the reader that it could be the same Hero.

I ignored the MS sleeps forever line because since the MS is used again in KnS, it means at least that the creators didn't intend the line to be taken literally. It doesn't matter if KnS is important enough to be considered for a timeline.

I forgot about the existence of the FS in ALttP: so there's a mistake in my timeline. Maybe it would be better to place TMC before AlttP, then ALttP, FS and FSA.

About the Sleeping Zelda, probably it takes place after ALttP, she could even be the same one of the game.

How many Links are there? I seriously have no idea, since I haven't played the Oracle games and LA. I'l do some research about it.

[spunky-monkey]

How many Links are there? I seriously have no idea, since I haven't played the Oracle games and LA. I'l do some research about it.

That's a good question. I can't say how many 'Links' exactly there are in the chronology, I find TMC|FS|FSA very confusing as the games may feature the same hero in all three but I'm not 100% sure...

I think this listing of the hero's appearances in the series might help us answer that question, feel free to take it to pieces.
NOTE - the list is not in any specific chronological order.

Link I aka 'Hero of Men' (TMC)

Link II (TMC)

Link III aka 'Hero of Legend' (ALttP|LA)

Link IV aka 'Hero of the Essences' (OoS|OoA)

Link V aka 'Hero of Time' (OoT|MM)

Link VI (FS)

Link VII (FSA)

Link VIII (LoZ|AoL)

Link IX aka 'Hero of Winds' (TWW)

[Crazy Penguin]

I find TMC|FS|FSA very confusing as the games may feature the same hero in all three but I'm not 100% sure...

Four Swords and Four Swords Adventures may or may not feature the same Link. But the Link in The Minish Cap is definitely a different generation, the Four Sword is an ancient legend in the other games.

[Showsni]

That's a good question. I can't say how many 'Links' exactly there are in the chronology, I find TMC|FS|FSA very confusing as the games may feature the same hero in all three but I'm not 100% sure...

I think this listing of the hero's appearances in the series might help us answer that question, feel free to take it to pieces.
NOTE - the list is not in any specific chronological order.

Link I aka 'Hero of Men' (TMC)

Link II (TMC)

Link III aka 'Hero of Legend' (ALttP|LA)

Link IV aka 'Hero of the Essences' (OoS|OoA)

Link V aka 'Hero of Time' (OoT|MM)

Link VI (FS)

Link VII (FSA)

Link VIII (LoZ|AoL)

Link IX aka 'Hero of Winds' (TWW)

You're missing the Link from Four Swords backstory.

[Hylian Diety]

This is refreshing. It's been a while since someone posted a thoughtful timeline. One different enough, and just crazy enough to pique everyone's interest. Even old-school LA hermits, like myself. Good job.

Small point, though, is the towns in AoL coinside with the sage names (and Mido, for some dumb reason) from OoT. In your theory, AoL comes before OoT, which could mean the sages were names this especially for some reason. But the common consensus is that the towns in AoL were named after the sages, which means OoT comes before, not after AoL.

And are you proposing that the Ganon(dorf) from FSA is the one who split the Triforce between ALttP and LoZ? I really haven't played it, so I don't know if that Ganon dies, or what. So please, let me know. Otherwise there could be a plothole.

So far, though, I like the timeline. It's new, and intriguing, and still plenty to discuss and dispute about.

[spunky-monkey]

You're missing the Link from Four Swords backstory.

That's why I said I found those three games very confusing as Vaati dies in Minish Cap, but at the start of FS is somehow sealed in the Four Sword. Thanks for reminding me. We won't know much about that Link until we get a Minish Cap sequel. It's also possible that the hero who sealed Vaati inbetween TMC/FS is actually the same hero from TMC.

I think there are either 9 or 10 Links so far in the series and can't say for certain until that FS plothole is fixed.

[Rogue Cucco]

Hooray! Another timeline theory. Look's like things are finally picking up speed.

It is a single timeline theory because of personal preferences of the author.

I'm confused- what do you mean by that? And speaking of splits-

I like how TWW comes RIGHT after OOT and MM, but, even with a single timeline, you still need to chose which ending it comes after, since there are two endings, unless Link goes back to the MS after MM and the timelines converge once again. Or, did going to the past cease existence of the future, or does the child Link thing not matter and TWW takes place after Adult ending, that thing... I like that sorta stuff.

With ALTTP before OOT, I just... uhh... don't like it. In my opinion, which isn't any good, really , OOT just has way too much of a connection to ALTTP, as FSA does too. With the whole MS deal, the war, the sealing, the sages, the way the geographies reflects each other- its all in the details, I guess, but everytime I play ALTTP I feel this wierd 'echo' effect from OOT, especially in certain spots where I see a resemblance to past games, including OOT. I think you can find that sorta stuff in my theory's thread.

And I guess anything, even TMC, could have led to the building of the Temple of Time. Just an idea, of course...

Anyways, nice job! Let's go timeline! The Missing Link on Zelda Blog just had it all wrong.

[MikePetersSucks]

Good theory. My only problem with it is that the FS games going inbetween Oracles and LOZ/Sleeping Zelda, both events in which the Triforce appears, and the FS games it does not appear. It's present in Oracles, dissapears without explaination, and appears again for LOZ?

[Showsni]

It's not mentioned in the FS games. That doesn't necessarily mean it's not there; although the likelihood of it being common knowledge in TMC is slim, as otherwise Vaati would probably be after it instead of the Light Force. Unless they're the same thing.

As for ALttP/OoT, there are too many discrepencies for me to equate them happily... For starters, we're equivocally told in ALttP's backstory that no hero to wield the Master Sword was found. According to the American version, the Master Sword itself was only created at this time - if you use the American canon rather than the Japanese, it's impossible to equate OoT and the IW.

[Doopliss]

This is refreshing. It's been a while since someone posted a thoughtful timeline. One different enough, and just crazy enough to pique everyone's interest. Even old-school LA hermits, like myself. Good job.

Small point, though, is the towns in AoL coinside with the sage names (and Mido, for some dumb reason) from OoT. In your theory, AoL comes before OoT, which could mean the sages were names this especially for some reason. But the common consensus is that the towns in AoL were named after the sages, which means OoT comes before, not after AoL.

And are you proposing that the Ganon(dorf) from FSA is the one who split the Triforce between ALttP and LoZ? I really haven't played it, so I don't know if that Ganon dies, or what. So please, let me know. Otherwise there could be a plothole.

So far, though, I like the timeline. It's new, and intriguing, and still plenty to discuss and dispute about.

Thanks you, Hylian Deity. I placed AoL before OoT becuase it is difficult to place a game that takes place in the original Hyrule (the one from OoT, presumably the same as ALttP's) after TWW because Hyrule was lost under the sea in the end. about Ganon: I think that he dies in ALttP, Twinrova revives him in the Oracle games but he is killed again, he is reborn in FSA, he is sealed in the Four Sword, he escapes and steals the Triforce of Power before LoZ.

Hooray! Another timeline theory. Look's like things are finally picking up speed.
I'm confused- what do you mean by that? And speaking of splits-

I like how TWW comes RIGHT after OOT and MM, but, even with a single timeline, you still need to chose which ending it comes after, since there are two endings, unless Link goes back to the MS after MM and the timelines converge once again. Or, did going to the past cease existence of the future, or does the child Link thing not matter and TWW takes place after Adult ending, that thing... I like that sorta stuff.

I believe that there is only one timeline that doesn't split in OoT. TWW continues on the same timeline as the other games.

Good theory. My only problem with it is that the FS games going inbetween Oracles and LOZ/Sleeping Zelda, both events in which the Triforce appears, and the FS games it does not appear. It's present in Oracles, dissapears without explaination, and appears again for LOZ?

At the end of ALttP it is complete, so it is in Oracles. I think that the Sleeping Zelda story takes place after the Oracles, so the Triforce wasn't complete by the time of FSA. After that, Ganon steals the Triforce of Power from the royal family, as it is stated in LoZ's backstory.

[MikePetersSucks]

Well why didn't Link use the Triforces of Power and Wisdom to like...kick Vaati's ass? >>

[Rogue Cucco]

I believe that there is only one timeline that doesn't split in OoT. TWW continues on the same timeline as the other games.

So, what I mean is, does the child ending somehow remerge with the adult ending, (saying that Link meets Zelda with the Triforce of Courage on his hand, and yet that still happens in the same timeline as when Zelda sends Link back in time and the Lon Lon Ranch party happens) or does the adult timeline cease to exist and the child timeline is what TWW takes place after? (After all, I think that only ALTTP references the adult ending of OOT. ... But, that's just me, of course!) I'm assuming you mean the former, where they remerge together somehow. The child ending cancelling the future ending seems better to me. Of course, I'm a multiple guy- I think the physics of time travel demand it, sorta. If the future is cancelled out, the going back in time thing can't happen... uh... but if the future still exists, though Link doesn't experience it, Link can experience his own existence.

Not that games need to follow physics (Oracle games), but I just like theorizing.

Edited by Rogue Cucco, 07 May 2006 - 11:41 AM.

[Doopliss]

Well why didn't Link use the Triforces of Power and Wisdom to like...kick Vaati's ass? >>

Maybe he didn't know about their existence, or he couldn't use them. Apparently Link can only use the Triforce of Courage.

So, what I mean is, does the child ending somehow remerge with the adult ending, (saying that Link meets Zelda with the Triforce of Courage on his hand, and yet that still happens in the same timeline as when Zelda sends Link back in time and the Lon Lon Ranch party happens) or does the adult timeline cease to exist and the child timeline is what TWW takes place after? (After all, I think that only ALTTP references the adult ending of OOT. ... But, that's just me, of course!) I'm assuming you mean the former, where they remerge together somehow. The child ending cancelling the future ending seems better to me. Of course, I'm a multiple guy- I think the physics of time travel demand it, sorta. If the future is cancelled out, the going back in time thing can't happen... uh... but if the future still exists, though Link doesn't experience it, Link can experience his own existence.

Not that games need to follow physics (Oracle games), but I just like theorizing.

The thing is I believe that there is only one ending. Here is what I think: Link beats Ganon, then, Zelda sents him exactly seven years back in time. At this point. child Link's mind (who is sleeping) and his adult mind change places, so his adult body falls unconscious while his child body comes back to life in the past. Link goes to Termina and he returns to Hyrule. There he puts the Master Sword on the pedestal and he returns to the future, switching places with his child mind. The future goes on and TWW happens.

[MikePetersSucks]

Link has used the entire Triforce, so of course he can use Power and Wisdom. As for not knowing about them, dude! They're in the damn royal castle!

[Rogue Cucco]

Maybe he didn't know about their existence, or he couldn't use them. Apparently Link can only use the Triforce of Courage.
The thing is I believe that there is only one ending. Here is what I think: Link beats Ganon, then, Zelda sents him exactly seven years back in time. At this point. child Link's mind (who is sleeping) and his adult mind change places, so his adult body falls unconscious while his child body comes back to life in the past. Link goes to Termina and he returns to Hyrule. There he puts the Master Sword on the pedestal and he returns to the future, switching places with his child mind. The future goes on and TWW happens.

Oookay, I gotcha! Well, sorta... the whole child-adult mind thing, well... I get the rest of it. Makes sense. Except, does this mean that Link keeps being sent back in time over and over again? Cuz, that would really, really stink.

[Showsni]

I tihnk it's the basic single timeline, everything in OoT happens with no overwrite, Link travels in spirit time travel that he's using. Basically, Link's body never moves in time. His soul jumps into the future each time he picks up the Master Sword, then back into the past when he drops it, jumps back when Zelda sends him back, and jumps forwards to just after Zelda sent him back just as child Link's soul jumps into adult Link's body for the first time. Basically, Link experiences the seven years out of order. There isn't a loop ot anything.