29 replies to this topic

[Arturo]

I was re-playing PH today and I noticed that, in the Isle of Dead, on the very first caves, Kasuto is mentioned, at least in the Spanish translation of the game. Since I don't recall anyone ever mentioning it, I thought that no mention to Kasuto was made in the English version. Because in the internet I could find nothing...

[Duke Serkol]

Just been discussing this with Arturo and I thought it might be interesting to note that the appearance of the name Kasuto is apparently within the name of a newspaper mentioned in a memo written by a dead explorer, the Kasuto Herald, which in the English version was the Explorer's Compass and in the French one the "Gazzette de Mumu".

...weird.

[Arturo]

Ok, since no-one seemed to care, I am going to make it clearer:

In PH, a newspaper/magazine called "Heraldo de Kasuto" (Kasuto's Herald) is mentioned. I have checked all the European translations, and none of them say anything remptely similar. In English, it's teh Explorer's Compass, in French, Gazette de Mumu, and in Italian, Bussola mensile (Monthly compass). Could someone check the Japanese version?

[Showsni]

Does Mumu mean anything?

Well, it looks like an easter egg slipped in by the Spanish translator (unless it's in the Japanese version). Nice find.

[Arturo]

Does Mumu mean anything?

I doubt it.

As for the acronym, that's why I think no-one had posted...

[Nameless_Joe]

Ok, since no-one seemed to care, I am going to make it clearer:

*dances around, excitedly waving hands in air* I care! I care!

I'm no great authority on PH, but I have always been interested in the towns Kasuto! I'd love to hear any additional info you can turn up!


Note: on Babelfish and Dictionary.com, 'mu' translates to 'driven' and 'Mu mu' to 'driven driven'. 'Mumu' is 'mumu', however... Stupid translation programs...

[Showsni]

However, searching wikipedia we find:

"The word Mumu may refer to:

Muumuu, a Hawaiian dress
Mumu, a Filipino Monster
Mumu (computer worm)
Mumu, a short story by Ivan Turgenev
Mumu is also an earth oven in Papua New Guinea or the food cooked in such an oven.
Mumu is a French London-based fashion stylist who works for The Sunday Times Magazine, among others. (aka: Muriel Faure.)
Mumu is also a Argentine candy from the 50s."

So take your pick.

[Nameless_Joe]

I'd be inclined to go with "Mumu, a Filipino Monster." Although no Wikipedia article exists, a quick Google search turned up several webpages which indicates the 'Mumu' is a type of ghost. Fitting, especially when considering the 'Old Kasuto Ghost Town.'

[Impossible]

It could also be a name used for something in one of the other French translations of a Zelda game. It's not a French word, though, as you seem to have worked out.

I was somewhat interested in this (although it's obviously an Easter egg and nothing else), but wanted to hear the context of it first. Now we need to check the Japanese version...

[jacensolo06]

The Japanese version is "月刊ムムー" which means "Monthly Mumuu".
And as far as I know, Mumuu doesn't mean anything.

[Duke Serkol]

Ah, so the French translation wins this one. Too bad. One can never have too many AoL references.

Edited by Duke Serkol, 21 April 2009 - 06:14 PM.

[Arturo]

I absolutely loved how that reference would have been irrefutable proof for Showsni timeline

[Duke Serkol]

Except it wouldn't have, because we don't know when the town of Kasuto was founded and what the status of that area was during TWW. Not to mention that PH likely takes place in an alternate dimension, invalidating pretty much everything.

[MikePetersSucks]

Not to mention that PH likely takes place in an alternate dimension

Kekkai.

[Duke Serkol]

Alternate dimension, kekkai, kinky... it's not the same world

[Showsni]

Unless the explorers who brought the newspaper came from the same place as Link.

[Duke Serkol]

Perfectly possible, but that would be a theory of its own, meaning it couldn't be used as proof for anotehr theory.

[MikePetersSucks]

Alternate dimension, kekkai, kinky... it's not the same world

Yea, except the difference is that the kekkai would be the bounds of the Ghost Ship and it's fog, not just the part of the Great Sea we see in the game, which was always a stupid theory since Linebeck can apparently sail between the two no problem.

[Duke Serkol]

except the difference is that the kekkai would be the bounds of the Ghost Ship and it's fog, not just the part of the Great Sea we see in the game, which was always a stupid theory since Linebeck can apparently sail between the two no problem.

But nothing prevents a kekkai from being as big as the area the game takes place in, doesn't it? Therefore, you should have simply said "I believe only the final battle took place in another dimension, or rather a kekkai" instead than just make a one word post.

And what does Linebeck being in the ending prove? If Link and Tetra could end up in another dimension from their own, so could he.

Personally, I find that throughout the game there are too many duplicate characters/concepts/items for the game not to be set in a Termina like alternate world.

Edited by Duke Serkol, 23 April 2009 - 08:25 PM.

[MikePetersSucks]

But nothing prevents a kekkai from being as big as the area the game takes place in, doesn't it?

Yea, it does. Kekkai aren't really ever that big. Infact, the size of the ghost ship and the fog is EXTREMELY impressive by typical standards.

And what does Linebeck being in the ending prove? If Link and Tetra could end up in another dimension from their own, so could he.

It's not so much being in the other world so much as....sailing inbetween the two. Without so much as a portal. It's pretty obvious the whole "other world" thing was referring to Bellum's warped domain.

Personally, I find that throughout the game there are too many duplicate characters/concepts/items for the game not to be set in a Termina like alternate world.

Name one thing that can't be attributed to Nintendo's lazy recycling and has to be some sort of metaphysical twin.

[Duke Serkol]

It's not so much being in the other world so much as....sailing inbetween the two. Without so much as a portal. It's pretty obvious the whole "other world" thing was referring to Bellum's warped domain.

Look, if you want to keep saying "It's obvious that I'm right" then fine, be that way, but that isn't really something that can be sconsidered debating.
This instance in particular, you indicate as proof "Linebeck sailing between the worlds"... that's what happens according to your interpretation, not something that can be used as evidence for it.

Name one thing that can't be attributed to Nintendo's lazy recycling and has to be some sort of metaphysical twin.

You know full well that this isn't possible, not anymore than finding a plausible reason why Link and Tetra would need to be sent back in time if the events of the game did not take place in another world (even in that case it makes little sense, but if not it just makes none).

And hey, if we go and reason that way, we could also think that Majora's Mask doesn't take place in another world. Duplicates? Nintendo's lazy recycling! Statements about Link going into another world? They only apply to fractions of the game, like the hyperspace passage that allows Link instant travel to Termina and the final battle in the moon.

[Sir Turtlelot]

They did recycle sprites in MM. Traveling to another world just explained why everyone was a duplicate.

[Duke Serkol]

But nothing prevents a kekkai from being as big as the area the game takes place in, doesn't it?

Yea, it does. Kekkai aren't really ever that big. Infact, the size of the ghost ship and the fog is EXTREMELY impressive by typical standards.

Actually wait, I've been debating this with you based on the assumption that the game used the word kekkai... but does it? Doesn't the game use the general term sekai?

They did recycle sprites in MM. Traveling to another world just explained why everyone was a duplicate.

Ah, I'm sorry but I think you need to re-read my post after turning on your sarcasm detector
Just kidding, but that was pretty much my point: the duplicates between TWW and PH have a precedent in OoT and MM (which is different from "duplicates" between, say Oracles and Minish Cap, since they don't feature the same Link).

[MikePetersSucks]

Actually wait, I've been debating this with you based on the assumption that the game used the word kekkai... but does it?

The word "kekkai" is used in reference to the ghost ship and it's fog, and Orcus makes comments that heavily imply that he sees the bounds within it as a separate world to the world outside it. It even apparently as time-warping properties. Cue theories that PH's Great Sea is actually in the future or something. XP

[Duke Serkol]

The word "kekkai" is used in reference to the ghost ship and it's fog

In that case, could it be that we have both a kekkai and a sekai (or two, actually) on our hands?
I mean, in the ending if I'm not mistaken the Ocean King says that Link and Tetra should return to their world, while he and the fairy spirits need to return to theirs. I'm presuming in this instance the word sekai is used.
So it could be that the area of PH is in a different world (sekai) than that of TWW and that the ghost ship is in a pocket dimension (kekkai) of its own.

Who's Orcus anyway? The Japanese name of a character? (Linebeck? The Ocean King's disguise?)

It even apparently as time-warping properties.

Should I assume you say this solely because of the ending and not because of some other event or statement?

[Impossible]

CURSE YOU JAPANESE SPEAKIE PEOPLE AND YOUR FANCY MOONSPEAK!

[MikePetersSucks]

In that case, could it be that we have both a kekkai and a sekai (or two, actually) on our hands?
I mean, in the ending if I'm not mistaken the Ocean King says that Link and Tetra should return to their world, while he and the fairy spirits need to return to theirs. I'm presuming in this instance the word sekai is used.
So it could be that the area of PH is in a different world (sekai) than that of TWW and that the ghost ship is in a pocket dimension (kekkai) of its own.

Maybe, but that sounds needlessly complicated and doesn't really conform to Occam's Razor, and the last thing on the subject of Zelda timeline is more continuity snarls to tackle. This theory is also assuming that the Ocean King and the Spirits don't watch over the Great Sea from some sort of spiritual plane. Tetra's pirates comment that they were in the Ocean King's domain before Tetra and Link vanished, so I don't think it's a different world.

Who's Orcus anyway? The Japanese name of a character? (Linebeck? The Ocean King's disguise?)

Oops! I meant the Ocean King's disguise. Seem I've forgotten his name. I knew it started with an O, but Orcus is the name of a demon lord from Dungeons and Dragons.

It was my brother's 21st birthday yesterday, nuff said.

Should I assume you say this solely because of the ending and not because of some other event or statement?

Mqybe. I think I remember something implying this beforehand, but I can't remember for the life of me what it was. PArt of me wants to say this because of Ciela's inability to warp time within the fog, or something.

[Duke Serkol]

the last thing on the subject of Zelda timeline is more continuity snarls to tackle.

But that woudn't be like the split timeline, it would be like Termina.

This theory is also assuming that the Ocean King and the Spirits don't watch over the Great Sea from some sort of spiritual plane. Tetra's pirates comment that they were in the Ocean King's domain before Tetra and Link vanished, so I don't think it's a different world.

Ah, good point... but it could be that the Ocean King watches over both worlds (with the ghost ship's kekkai being just a pocket dimension created for its own needs).

Oops! I meant the Ocean King's disguise. Seem I've forgotten his name. I knew it started with an O, but Orcus is the name of a demon lord from Dungeons and Dragons.

And the villain of the GameBoy Kid Icarus! (Except with another o, Orcos)

[MikePetersSucks]

Ah, good point... but it could be that the Ocean King watches over both worlds (with the ghost ship's kekkai being just a pocket dimension created for its own needs).

If they watch over both worlds, then how is PH's Great Sea "their world"? Also Linebeck. He probably would've commented if he was unfamiliar with the world around him, and then he's in the Hyrulian Great Sea just fine.

[Duke Serkol]

If they watch over both worlds, then how is PH's Great Sea "their world"?

Perhaps because they live in that one. Either that, or it could be that the legend of the Great Sea was brought to the world of TWW by people coming from the world of PH.

Also Linebeck. He probably would've commented if he was unfamiliar with the world around him, and then he's in the Hyrulian Great Sea just fine.

Oh there is no doubt that Linebeck has lived in the area of PH for a long time, he and that annoying female pirate (can't recall the name right now) clearly have a history and she is definitely native of one of the islands in the game (you can tell from the eyes). My explanation is that he might have been whisked into the world of PH when he was a child.

Oh I want to clarify something in case I was misunderstood: I'm not saying I'm certain that the world of PH is not the same of TWW. I think it's more likely because of a number of redundancies, but I am open to both possibilities (meaning if you had argued that the two games were surely in different worlds, I would have argued that they could be the same too )