There is currently some controversy over Fox hunting in the UK, and today Parliament is trying to pass a blanket ban on fox hunting with dogs.
The Countryside Alliance is opposed to this ban. They claim they need to control the fox population and even then there are many who make their livelyhoods from breeding and maintaing horses and hunting dogs. With this ban, they might lose their jobs.
Ref: Hunting is My Livelihood
http://news.bbc.co.u...ics/3656524.stm
Info on the Anti-Hunting Bill: http://news.bbc.co.u...ics/3208106.stm
All that I know now is that if the ban comes into force, a lot of hunting dogs will need to be put down.
What do you think?
Ban On Fox Hunting
Started by
Wolf O'Donnell
, Sep 15 2004 05:27 AM
53 replies to this topic
#1
Wolf O'Donnell
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Posted 15 September 2004 - 05:27 AM
#2
Kwicky Koala
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Posted 15 September 2004 - 06:37 AM
I love this, because it's a battle of stereotypes.
Pro stereotype: You expect us to stop Fox-Hunting? But then what would we do on weekends? Ai for one would not stoop to pottering round the manor watching the *snigger* Eastenders omnibus on BBC1. Oh, and some serfs would lose their jobs too, but they don't really count, do they?
Against stereotype: If you are in any way affiliating yourself with hunting, you are a callous animal murderer who clubs baby seal on your day off. Think of the poor, ickle foxy-woxy. And animals are more important then humans, aren't they?
So, in conclusion, I think they should do what they did on Return to River Cottage and hire people to run for them.
Pro stereotype: You expect us to stop Fox-Hunting? But then what would we do on weekends? Ai for one would not stoop to pottering round the manor watching the *snigger* Eastenders omnibus on BBC1. Oh, and some serfs would lose their jobs too, but they don't really count, do they?
Against stereotype: If you are in any way affiliating yourself with hunting, you are a callous animal murderer who clubs baby seal on your day off. Think of the poor, ickle foxy-woxy. And animals are more important then humans, aren't they?
So, in conclusion, I think they should do what they did on Return to River Cottage and hire people to run for them.
#3
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Posted 15 September 2004 - 08:01 AM
Well, this is difficult. The foxes can easily prey on cattle and etc. because they are enclosed. This is really the fault of people. The fact that these people don't respect the land their in. True enough, these people need to make a living and I feel for them but look at the Dust Bowl Era in the US. Because of the intensity and occurrence of dust storms many farmers had to find a new way of life. I'm sure these people can find something else or at least come up with a sustainable solution to the problem (ex: leave some food outside their farm). Personally, I don't think its right to hunt these foxes and other creatures (bears and etc).
#4
Alakhriveion
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Posted 15 September 2004 - 09:50 AM
Heh... our government just un-banned machine guns for unfettered public use. You silly, silly, civilized furners...
#5
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Posted 15 September 2004 - 10:46 AM
Americans must have big foxes, or small cattle. No way could a fox over here take down a cow.
But yeah, they should ban it. We were actually arguing about this the other day in Politics, someone brought it up.
The ayes always have it in the HoC, just the HoL block it!
But yeah, they should ban it. We were actually arguing about this the other day in Politics, someone brought it up.
The ayes always have it in the HoC, just the HoL block it!
#6
Alakhriveion
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Posted 15 September 2004 - 11:18 AM
Bah, no. We just like big guns. As of yesterday, we can own an AK-47 without telling the government!
#7
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Posted 15 September 2004 - 11:22 AM
Aren't they trying to cut down on possible terrorism and gun ctrimes? Espeically with weapons that can, for instance shoot straight through the armour on a Black Hawk?
#8
Alakhriveion
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Posted 15 September 2004 - 11:24 AM
Uh... they say they are, but they're still allowing us to carry bazookas around...for hunting and self-defense, of course.Originally posted by Meep@Sep 15 2004, 11:22 AM
Aren't they trying to cut down on possible terrorism and gun ctrimes? Espeically with weapons that can, for instance shoot straight through the armour on a Black Hawk?
#9
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Posted 15 September 2004 - 11:36 AM
Just incase you're suddenly assailed by a chopper? I can see why! Go your government!
#10
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Posted 15 September 2004 - 11:38 AM
The fox hunting debate has been going on for years. I remember having a guest speaker from both sides visit us to give a passionate lecture, and that was more than 4 years ago. I don't think the ban will ever get through.
I don't particularly care but I think it'll be better for fox hunting to remain, provided it follows a code of practice to ensure a proper hunt.
I don't particularly care but I think it'll be better for fox hunting to remain, provided it follows a code of practice to ensure a proper hunt.
#11
Oberon Storm
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Posted 15 September 2004 - 12:14 PM
What? When? Where was I? Oh yeah. Chicago.Originally posted by Meep@Sep 15 2004, 10:46 AM
Americans must have big foxes, or small cattle. No way could a fox over here take down a cow.
But yeah, they should ban it. We were actually arguing about this the other day in Politics, someone brought it up.
The ayes always have it in the HoC, just the HoL block it!
EDIT: After asking some questions all that happened was the Assault Rifle Ban expired. Meaning no one thought to make it lasting.
#12
Kwicky Koala
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Posted 15 September 2004 - 12:34 PM
I think the ban was just approved.
#13
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Posted 15 September 2004 - 12:46 PM
Then I guess fishing will be next.
#14
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Posted 15 September 2004 - 12:53 PM
Yeah, they said they were going to force it through with the Parliament Act.
#15
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Posted 15 September 2004 - 12:54 PM
No. The ban was passed a long time ago by the Clinton adminsistration.
#16
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Posted 15 September 2004 - 12:55 PM
No it hasn't been approved. Tony has decided to bring the discussion of the banning (*sigh*) forward from 2 years to 18 months after pressure from backbenchers.
Marty, fishing will not be next. That's just what the Countryside Alliance say to rally support. Fishing is a relatively humane sport considering [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] of the time you're required to throw the fish back. If I remember rightly.
PS: You live very close to me. o.O;
Marty, fishing will not be next. That's just what the Countryside Alliance say to rally support. Fishing is a relatively humane sport considering [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] of the time you're required to throw the fish back. If I remember rightly.
PS: You live very close to me. o.O;
#17
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Posted 15 September 2004 - 01:04 PM
The radicals will try to get fishing banned. They'll never succeed but they will try. I'll just be there making sure they never drink beer again since the gills are used as a filter during the brewing process 
Where are you from then Meep? I only study at the university.
Where are you from then Meep? I only study at the university.
#18
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Posted 15 September 2004 - 01:08 PM
Originally posted by Meep@Sep 15 2004, 03:46 PM
Americans must have big foxes, or small cattle. No way could a fox over here take down a cow.
But yeah, they should ban it. We were actually arguing about this the other day in Politics, someone brought it up.
The ayes always have it in the HoC, just the HoL block it!
Even things like miniguns?
I'm generally against fox hunting, and think it should be banned. I was also watching the news and the Pro-hunting protesters are complaining that the police being too aggresive towards, ironically in the background a group of pro-hunters are throwing bricks and fireworks at the riot police and one was beating an officer with a stick. Idiots.... <_<
#19
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Posted 15 September 2004 - 01:34 PM
Oh hell yeah! That means techniquely I can go check out a M-16 from the range and shot to my hearts content...or no even better....THE SAW!Originally posted by Alakhriveion@Sep 15 2004, 08:18 AM
Bah, no. We just like big guns. As of yesterday, we can own an AK-47 without telling the government!
#20
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Posted 15 September 2004 - 01:40 PM
Hell, you can get a rocket-powered grenade launcher, and fire it as much as want, and tell the cops to shove it if they try to stop you!
#21
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Posted 15 September 2004 - 08:25 PM
Heck yeah!
Oh BTW commenting on the topic although I love the cute little foxes, I don't feel they have that many rights, its just another form of hunting for me.
Oh BTW commenting on the topic although I love the cute little foxes, I don't feel they have that many rights, its just another form of hunting for me.
#22
Oberon Storm
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Posted 15 September 2004 - 10:32 PM
Why the hell didn't anyone think to get that weapons ban made permanent?
#23
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Posted 16 September 2004 - 12:10 AM
Lincoln.
And as they've evidently decided in the Commons it's going to be banned, I hope they actually look at it in the Lords this time. Or they'll have to use the PA.
An intresting note is that in England no government has been elected by an absolute majority since 1935. ie 51% of the nation or more.
And as they've evidently decided in the Commons it's going to be banned, I hope they actually look at it in the Lords this time. Or they'll have to use the PA.
An intresting note is that in England no government has been elected by an absolute majority since 1935. ie 51% of the nation or more.
#24
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Posted 16 September 2004 - 04:54 AM
Originally posted by Chief Fire Storm@Sep 16 2004, 04:32 AM
Why the hell didn't anyone think to get that weapons ban made permanent?
Believe it or not, this is a topic about fox hunting with dogs that chase foxes and then rip them apart. They die from being torn apart by dogs that treat them as chew toys and tug of war toys.
#25
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Posted 16 September 2004 - 06:44 AM
Few reasons for that:-Originally posted by Meep@Sep 16 2004, 06:10 AM
Lincoln.
And as they've evidently decided in the Commons it's going to be banned, I hope they actually look at it in the Lords this time. Or they'll have to use the PA.
An intresting note is that in England no government has been elected by an absolute majority since 1935. ie 51% of the nation or more.
-Lack of general public interest in politics, back in the time people were lucky to be able to vote its too taken for granted now
-Most people don't understand the politics system, they're voting blindly, most working class vote Labour without even beginning to understand what they stand for
-Scotland for some odd reason are allowed to vote despite the fact most laws don't really directly affect them
-Most youth prefer getting drunk to bothering with some old people in a house who jeer all the time....(anyone who regularly watches houses of lords/commons meetings will know what I mean)
-A series of bad decisions as of late has made public lose faith with the whole political system and politicians in general.
-The system has to be somewhat inaccurate representative of people as when it was temporary reorganized to allow 'fairer' voting New Labour were slaughtered by Liberal Democrats in the Yorkshire regionnal voting almost immediately which couldn't have simply been coincidence. Considering Liberal Democrats are rarely ever taken seriously.
Either views are changing or the factors of loss of touch with politics mentioned earlier is quite real.
-The final sad factor...as of late more Scottish people vote than English people in the elctions.
#26
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Posted 16 September 2004 - 12:08 PM
Well, there is a little something called Ecological Justice. It states that other living creatures other than humans do have a right to exist. Besides, many organisms help shape our world. Take the lichen for example. Without them or other pioneer organisms soil would not be established on new formed land (first step in Primary Succession [Biological Succession]). As far as fishing goes there is also something called the Precautionary Approach. Taking steps not to overfish and restore fish habitat (freshwater and marine).
What it comes right down to it, we need to respect our Earth and all of the other creatures whom we share it with. Though, we do need to becareful. Its a very intricate situation. Oh and if any of you go to Africa, watch out for the Siafu Ants!
What it comes right down to it, we need to respect our Earth and all of the other creatures whom we share it with. Though, we do need to becareful. Its a very intricate situation. Oh and if any of you go to Africa, watch out for the Siafu Ants!
#27
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Posted 16 September 2004 - 06:42 PM
Well that's just sad! Can't they teach the dog to just catch it or something?Originally posted by Wolf_ODonnell@Sep 16 2004, 01:54 AM
Believe it or not, this is a topic about fox hunting with dogs that chase foxes and then rip them apart. They die from being torn apart by dogs that treat them as chew toys and tug of war toys.
#28
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Posted 18 September 2004 - 12:02 PM
The foxes aren't torn apart - or at least not while they're alive. The hounds bite the fox on the neck and kill it in five seconds or less. The hounds are allowed to rip the body apart as a treat afterwards - but I don't think the fox is going to mind, do you?
But more seriously, why is it necessary to criminalise an entire sector of society because they engage in a sport that keeps down vermin? Don't we think thre are better things to engage the police with?
But more seriously, why is it necessary to criminalise an entire sector of society because they engage in a sport that keeps down vermin? Don't we think thre are better things to engage the police with?
#29
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Posted 18 September 2004 - 12:37 PM
Umm, last I checked, the canine fighting style revolves around the dogs swarming around the target, and everyone biting on and pulling. Dogs very much favor disembowellment over of the neck bite. That's more a cat thing.
#30
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Posted 18 September 2004 - 12:39 PM
Sure, the dogs swarm all over the fox...but that doesn't cange the fact that they kill it by a bite to the neck.
